Lets play Redskins Owner... (This is a long rant)

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Juggernaut,

Antajj Hawthorne is a DT for Wisconsin, not Texas.

I wouldn't cut Brunell (because cutting him would create too big of a cap hit) until June 1, 2006 or Barrow (since he's not eating a ton of cap space).

Brees will get a 1st at most and more likely a 2nd rounder.

No one in thier right mind would give up 2 1st rounders for Samuels, especially for the cap figure he's going to carry.

Finally, we don't have a 2nd rounder because we traded it to the Saints to get Cooley in the 3rd round of the 04 draft.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Skinsrock:

You said, "Even Shotty's team is coming on in year 3!" I understand that you are arguing in favor of continuity - which I agree is something that would benefit the Redskins a lot. However, you seem to imply that "Shotty" is a mediocre kind of coach whose team finally seems to be coming around despite him. If that is not what you meant, then I apologize; that's what I read into your remark.

For the record, Marty Schottenheimer had won more than 60% of the game he coached in the NFL prior to comeng here to Washington. He was not - and is not now - a stumblebum. "Martyball" may not be top-shelf in terms of excitement, but over his career of about 12-14 years prior to DC, he won about 10 games a year on average. That is not bad at all. I do not believe that the Redskins have won 10 games in any year since Gibbs left in the early 1990s - but if they have I'm willing for someone to point out that I am wrong here.

So when you ache and pine for stability, ask yourself why Marty Schottenheimer was fired after only one season. Who did it and why? Then you will begin to understand why stability and continuity will be difficult to obtain for this team...

[That Guy]

atlanta isn't a fluke, vick just matters that much to them... though their D is 200% better this year...

[SmootSmack]

SC: Skins were 10-6 in 1999

[sportscurmudgeon]

I stand correctred.

[SkinsRock]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Skinsrock:

You said, "Even Shotty's team is coming on in year 3!" I understand that you are arguing in favor of continuity - which I agree is something that would benefit the Redskins a lot. However, you seem to imply that "Shotty" is a mediocre kind of coach whose team finally seems to be coming around despite him. If that is not what you meant, then I apologize; that's what I read into your remark.

For the record, Marty Schottenheimer had won more than 60% of the game he coached in the NFL prior to comeng here to Washington. He was not - and is not now - a stumblebum. "Martyball" may not be top-shelf in terms of excitement, but over his career of about 12-14 years prior to DC, he won about 10 games a year on average. That is not bad at all. I do not believe that the Redskins have won 10 games in any year since Gibbs left in the early 1990s - but if they have I'm willing for someone to point out that I am wrong here.

So when you ache and pine for stability, ask yourself why Marty Schottenheimer was fired after only one season. Who did it and why? Then you will begin to understand why stability and continuity will be difficult to obtain for this team...

I just didn't feel like spelling out Schottenheimer.....And all I meant was that after being at the bottom of the league for 2 years (while he's been there...I know they sucked before too), a little stability and patience is starting pay off for them. I was very curious to see what Marty could have done in year two here, but obviously Dan had other intentions...

[That Guy]

the problem we've had isn't bad coaching, its inpatience... (well norv sucks, but we had marty and we could have had lewis, both of which are quality head coaches...)

and marty's doing his thing this year without LT as the centerpiece...

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I really think it was totally recockulous to expect the Skins to have a good season considering the state of the team Gibbs was getting.

Don't be surprised if last year's 5-11 team turns out to be better than this '04 Gibbs-coached team. We'll be lucky if we can match that win total.

Although I was not a fan of Schottenheimer when he was here, especially his offensive philosophy, after much thought, I have to agree with SC. Hindsight being 20/20, if there's one moment in the past where this team made the wrong turn, it very well might be when Snyder lost his patience with Schottenheimer. Sometimes I feel like sticking it out with Marty could have been the key to turning this franchise around. His discipline, his fundamentals and fierce and fiery ways might have been just what this team needed. That goes back to Dan Snyder, and that was all on him.

This is in no way meant to be an example of jumping off the Joe Gibbs Bandwagon. I don't want to be construed into one of those people who comes crawling back when things start getting better -- because I know they will with our coach. It's just going to take some time.

With just a few adjustments in his offensive system, sometimes I just feel like we'd be in the hunt right now if Schotty was still coaching this team.

[offiss]

I don't know why everyone is getting on Ceratto, the only real bad move we have made talent wise over the last 3 year's is Brunell who is Gibb's choice, in fact I believe Snyder and co. where against Brunell but allowed Gibb's to make the final decision, who else is bad? Ceratto didn't hire SS, Coles, Thomas, Jacob's, Dockery, where partly his decision but how many player's has he had an opportunity to draft or trade for? Marty made all the decision's when he was here, Snyder drafted Ramsey, I really don't think he has had much of a say the last few year's, our talent isn't the problem, it's been coaching, now we are in the process of being taught how to play in the NFL rather than college, and the biggest key to making that happen is Ramsey, the sooner he get's comfortable in Gibb's system the better we will be as a team, we will see player's start to live up to their hype, tough for a WR to excel when no one can get him the ball, tough for a RB to produce when you can't throw, everything run's through the QB one way or the other, a lot of fan's here are going to be very surprised on how much talent we really have once Ramsey start's hitting his reciever's, which he will do against Philli, but it will take some time for him to become very consistant and mistake free.

[sportscurmudgeon]

offiss:

You conveniently ignore some of Cerrato's blunders.

Remember those defensive linemen we had out there last year who could not stop an Ivy League school running game? Who assembled that crew - outside of Bruce Smith who was Danny Boy's baby?

Who managed the cap such that they were forced to get rid of Dan Wilkenson? Wilkenson is not very good but he was and is a whole lot better than anything they put in behind him last year?

Who went out and did the "investigating" to assure the team that Darryl Russell was "reformed" so they could bring him in here?

Who gave up a draft choice for Lionel Daulton?

Who gave up a draft choice to the Saints for one of their useless DTs who stunk in spades here all last year?

Who discovered Man-Mountain Kenyatta Jones? (He worked out pretty well here.)

Wasn't Vinnie here to help orchestrate the Jeff George era in Washington? I think he was.

Who ran Stephen Davis out of town? Vinnie? or Spurrier? Davis is not as good as Portis, but he might have been just a tad better than what the team was left with last year in Canidate, Morton and Cartwright.

Oh yeah, who traded for Canidate? That worked out really well.

I don't think Vinnie is worth the salary they pay him but I'll admit he has done a few things right. But for you to say that "the only bad move we have made talent wise in the last 3 years is Brunell" is hiding your head in the sand.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

SC,

You point out back-ups and poorly paid guys as examples of Vinny's blunders. Name me a team and I'll show you a bunch of those. I agree he's made more mistakes than the Brunell trade (which was probably the result of Gibbs wanting a seasoned veteran), but the mistakes are really outweighed by the positive moves.

Also, those same D-linemen who couldn't stop sh-t, are now doing quite well with just one addition (Griffin).

The same people who attacked our signing of Griffin as another example of the 'Skins overpaying, are now saying what a great signing it was.

I don't think Vinny has done a perfect job, but IMO he's done a damn good one.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

SC,

You point out back-ups and poorly paid guys as examples of Vinny's blunders. Name me a team and I'll show you a bunch of those. I agree he's made more mistakes than the Brunell trade (which was probably the result of Gibbs wanting a seasoned veteran), but the mistakes are really outweighed by the positive moves.

Also, those same D-linemen who couldn't stop sh-t, are now doing quite well with just one addition (Griffin).

The same people who attacked our signing of Griffin as another example of the 'Skins overpaying, are now saying what a great signing it was.

I don't think Vinny has done a perfect job, but IMO he's done a damn good one.

Thank you! RF

We took flyer's on those guy's who thought we were getting all pro's, getting rid of big fatty was a major plus on the part of Ceratto, an over paid, lazy unproductive clown!

SC you also don't take into account our big time defensive coach last year Edward's, I don't care if we had the fearsome foursome lining up every sunday they would have been buried by offenses with what was one of the all time ridiculous defensive coaching schemes in skin's history.

And no Vinny didn't orchestrate Jeff George that was all Snyder.

As for Davis that look's like a pretty good call on Ceratto's part right now, Davis had a pretty good regular season last year and hasen't been heard from since, talk about dodging a salary cap bullitt that was a great job not signing Davis.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

SC,

You point out back-ups and poorly paid guys as examples of Vinny's blunders. Name me a team and I'll show you a bunch of those.

I think a lot of us forget that there are 31 other teams in the league, every team has their share of mistakes, blunders and flops.

Ours are under a bit of a microscope since we live, eat and breathe burgundy and gold.

[LongTimeSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

ask yourself why Marty Schottenheimer was fired after only one season. Who did it and why? Then you will begin to understand why stability and continuity will be difficult to obtain for this team...

I remember that season pretty well. I remember the Redskins struggling with Marty's off. schemes initially then a little after halfway through the season, it was like a giant lightbulb went on in the team's collective head and we put a few wins together at the end of the season. Did we go 8-8 that year or something close? The thing that I remembered most about what encompassed that whole season though, was that the previous year, Schottenheimer as a commentator for ESPN or some other sports network made the comment that he would never coach for an owner like Dan Snyder. A couple months later he was hired then a year later he was fired. I remember the disgust I felt for Snyder because I thought he was treating the whole thing like a little game- "I can hire whoever I want, I can fire whoever I want" with no apparent regard for the success of the team. If you are indeed inferring that Snyder was responsible and his motivation was akin to that of a canine's ability to lick his own reproductive organs ("because I can"), yeah I would agree and until "The Daniel" decides to sit in his leatherette chair lean back and do nothing more than write paychecks, it will be a challenge for us to maintain a comfortable level of consistency and continuity.

[That Guy]

scotty went 0-5 then 5-0 and ended that season at 8-8... then LDS ruined it

i believe davis's agent ran him out of town... he wanted something like 10$mill a year or something... it was completely insane, even as a starting point...