Justin Tryon Breaking Out?

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Tryon was the best player available when we picked.

So was EVERYONE according to Cerrato.

[steveo395]

yea I was just about to say being Cerrato's best player available doesn't mean shit.

[Dirtbag59]

But Vinny said

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

Someone went as far as to say Tryon will eventually replace Rogers and that he could actually do so before the end of the season. That may be a stretch, but it could also have something to do with Rogers and his contract situaton, coupled with the uncertainty of a new CBA. Tryon did play well in spurts last year, whether he's ready for full time duty as a starter remains to be seen. He's untested in the deep passing game, he spent the majority of his snaps covering receivers in short areas.

The Rogers situation is tough. He's a free agent at the end of the year, and we'll have to choose between giving a 4-5 year contract at roughly $5 million per year to a 30 year old corner (in 2011), or let him walk and try to replace him.

The other thing to keep in mind is that we might also have to replace Hall in the same offseason. He can opt to be a FA in 2011 and give back his money. He's not going to do that, obviously, but we might choose to cut him a check and get rid of him if he's a poor scheme fit.

And, ultimately, if both Rogers and Hall end up being free agents, I'm not sure we can count on Barnes and Tryon to be a starting CB duo.

[schndr_tdd]

He worked out last off-season ,with the greatest CB of all time, Darrell Green.And supposedly,Tryon and Hall worked this off season with him.I dont know this to be a fact but to me Green should be a secondary coach in the NFL.

[mlmpetert]

^ Ive heard that DG was a really poor technique guy. He had just such ridiculous physical gifts that he was able to get away with anything. Maybe in his later years (10-20) he refined his touch. Also see video below:

YouTube - The Great Darrell Green Feature

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

Someone went as far as to say Tryon will eventually replace Rogers and that he could actually do so before the end of the season. That may be a stretch, but it could also have something to do with Rogers and his contract situaton, coupled with the uncertainty of a new CBA. Tryon did play well in spurts last year, whether he's ready for full time duty as a starter remains to be seen. He's untested in the deep passing game, he spent the majority of his snaps covering receivers in short areas.

Minus Rodgers hands i think he a top5 corner in the league. I didnt realize he just turned 29 though. At this point to think/wish he can get interceptions is more then pushing it. Thinking about how old our corners are kind of makes you wishfull someone is gonna step up. Im with you, i dont trust him deep.

[53Fan]

[QUOTE=mlmpetert;712922]^ Ive heard that DG was a really poor technique guy. He had just such ridiculous physical gifts that he was able to get away with anything. Maybe in his later years (10-20) he refined his touch.

I agree. DG's greatest asset was his freakish speed. You can't teach that.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Basically, you can attribute all of the defensive struggles to Horton and Smoot in the first three games, Landry in the last ten, and team-wide preposterous coverage breakdowns pretty much the whole year.

I think a healthy dose of the coverage misques falls in the lap of the coaches.
Towards the end of the year Coach Gray even accepted some blame about the defensive playcalls for the secondary:

Originally Posted by Coach Gray

http://www.csnwashington.com/pages/redskins
@00:19 seconds

"...the coverages have been 2 deep and 3 deep (zone) I wish they would have been man to man....what position are we putting our guys in really need to self evaluate the coaching and also the players lets look at this thing together and see how we can get it fixed and hopefully the next four weeks we can get it fixed and get back to where we were"

I saw a secondary that didn't execute Cover 2 and Cover 4 defenses very well the entire season.
The transition or hand-off from Corner to Safety was horrible, the DBs almost never jammed the receivers at the line to slow them down which basically gave the WR a full head of steam to run right at the Safety.
Also, the CB/S just flat-out dropped some coverages far too many then what you would expect from a defense of our caliber but the common theme was that most if not all of these gaffs came in Zone Cover 2/Cover 4.

You mention Horton i distincts remember 2 games where he was playing deep 1/2 Cover 2 safety and was clearly beat.
The 1st was against the Rams but thankfully he got away with a shove and the QB was under enough pressure to force an underthrow:

NFL Videos: Redskins Defense Highlight, WK 02 vs. Rams 2009

The 2nd was against the Lions we're in Cover 2 Zone again and he gets beat commits PI and the Lions get 1st and goal.

Look @ 3:09 mark:
NFL Videos: Lions 19, Redskins 14

3-9-WAS 48 (6:18) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass incomplete short left to B.Johnson (C.Horton). DET-B.Johnson was injured during the play. His
return is Probable.
PENALTY on WAS-C.Horton, Defensive Pass Interference, 47 yards, enforced at WAS 48 - No Play.

Landry's misques were also in Cover 2/Cover 4 against the Bronco's Landry/Smoot and Hall combined to blow a Cover 2/4 coverage as did Rogers and Smoot.

Against the Saints Landry once in Cover 2 on a double move then got beat as he properly played his scheme assignment in Cover 4 but Smoot didn't.

NFL Videos: The Coaches: Saints chalk talk

NFL Videos: WK 13 Anatomy: Brees bombs away

I thought the mistakes made in execution of Cover 2(Zone)/Cover 4 defense coverages showed that our defense didn't properly understand the defense and therefore made mistakes they didn't make in other defenses that they were more comfortable with like Cover 1/Cover 3 (Where Landry was excellent).

I also think it was unconscionable for the coaching staff to allow that to happen.

-Oh,

I think Tryon is coming along well and if he continues to improve i could see him earn increased playing time.

[Mechanix544]

I think he will be a decent nickl/dime guy.

[skinsnut]

I think Barnes was drafted as a potential starting CB after discovering Tryon had no real shot. I can't get any word on how well Barnes is doing....is he gunna be a bust?...are they planning to use him on teams, a nickle guy, a 4th CB?

Who is our 4th CB? Tryon?....is Barnes currently #5?
Someone please tell us how Barnes is doing.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

I think Barnes was drafted as a potential starting CB after discovering Tryon had no real shot. I can't get any word on how well Barnes is doing....is he gunna be a bust?...are they planning to use him on teams, a nickle guy, a 4th CB?

Who is our 4th CB? Tryon?....is Barnes currently #5?
Someone please tell us how Barnes is doing.

I was thinking that Barnes was drafted as a role guy and hopefully moving up to starter level knowing that Los, Hall, and Smoot wouldn't be here in 1-2 years possibly.

[SmootSmack]

Unfortunately, haven't really heard good things about Barnes this spring.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I think a healthy dose of the coverage misques falls in the lap of the coaches.
Towards the end of the year Coach Gray even accepted some blame about the defensive playcalls for the secondary:



I saw a secondary that didn't execute Cover 2 and Cover 4 defenses very well the entire season.
The transition or hand-off from Corner to Safety was horrible, the DBs almost never jammed the receivers at the line to slow them down which basically gave the WR a full head of steam to run right at the Safety.
Also, the CB/S just flat-out dropped some coverages far too many then what you would expect from a defense of our caliber but the common theme was that most if not all of these gaffs came in Zone Cover 2/Cover 4.

You mention Horton i distincts remember 2 games where he was playing deep 1/2 Cover 2 safety and was clearly beat.
The 1st was against the Rams but thankfully he got away with a shove and the QB was under enough pressure to force an underthrow:

NFL Videos: Redskins Defense Highlight, WK 02 vs. Rams 2009

The 2nd was against the Lions we're in Cover 2 Zone again and he gets beat commits PI and the Lions get 1st and goal.

Look @ 3:09 mark:
NFL Videos: Lions 19, Redskins 14

3-9-WAS 48 (6:18) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass incomplete short left to B.Johnson (C.Horton). DET-B.Johnson was injured during the play. His
return is Probable.
PENALTY on WAS-C.Horton, Defensive Pass Interference, 47 yards, enforced at WAS 48 - No Play.

Landry's misques were also in Cover 2/Cover 4 against the Bronco's Landry/Smoot and Hall combined to blow a Cover 2/4 coverage as did Rogers and Smoot.

Against the Saints Landry once in Cover 2 on a double move then got beat as he properly played his scheme assignment in Cover 4 but Smoot didn't.

NFL Videos: The Coaches: Saints chalk talk

NFL Videos: WK 13 Anatomy: Brees bombs away

I thought the mistakes made in execution of Cover 2(Zone)/Cover 4 defense coverages showed that our defense didn't properly understand the defense and therefore made mistakes they didn't make in other defenses that they were more comfortable with like Cover 1/Cover 3 (Where Landry was excellent).

I also think it was unconscionable for the coaching staff to allow that to happen.

-Oh,

I think Tryon is coming along well and if he continues to improve i could see him earn increased playing time.

Phenomenal work, just awesome.

Very consistent with the remarks made during the season by those with access to the coaches tape. We tried to play a lot of zone last year without bothering to teach zone to players who played a limited amount of it under Grilliams.

Blache/Gray/Jackson might all be good coaches, but they failed last year at some absurdly basic levels.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Unfortunately, haven't really heard good things about Barnes this spring.

It's unfortunate but to hang your expectations on a guy coming out of the draft at that position it's pretty much what you would expect. Is it that you haven't heard good.. or that you've heard bad? Or a mixture?

What about Kareem Moore? Heard he was getting most of the 1st team reps at FS.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The Rogers situation is tough. He's a free agent at the end of the year, and we'll have to choose between giving a 4-5 year contract at roughly $5 million per year to a 30 year old corner (in 2011), or let him walk and try to replace him.

The other thing to keep in mind is that we might also have to replace Hall in the same offseason. He can opt to be a FA in 2011 and give back his money. He's not going to do that, obviously, but we might choose to cut him a check and get rid of him if he's a poor scheme fit.

And, ultimately, if both Rogers and Hall end up being free agents, I'm not sure we can count on Barnes and Tryon to be a starting CB duo.

IMO Rogers is as good as gone. He's going into his 5th year?? He is what he is. A slightly better than average corner that simply has 0 play making skills. Someone that needs secondary help will over pay him. If Tryon improves then I could see him replacing Rogers in 11.