Violence in pro sports.

itvnetop · 03-10-2004, 12:26 AM

on the canucks messageboards, most of the fans understand that what happened was pretty disgusting (and has no place in sports). there are still a few fans that actually say that what bertuzzi did wasn't as bad as at seems...

when i see support of the perpetrator like this, it really bugs me how team allegiences can cloud certain people's perspectives on incidents like last night. we all love sports and our home teams, but i can't believe a few fans actually thought the hit wasn't "that bad."

skinsfanthru&thru · 03-10-2004, 01:09 AM

I can't help but cringe whenever they show the replay of what happened. and after he'd smashed the guy's head into the ground he got in a couple more punches. With something of this nature being premeditated, he has to be suspended for more than the 20 or so games a lot of hockey people r saying will be the penalty. The guy who got attacked is actually not only for the injury not likely to be career ending but more importantly he's lucky he didn't die as a result of this cowardly attack. this is why it's hard to get into hockey and baseball sometimes cuz guys and teammates carry over grudges and try to get revenge when they get a chance. sooner or later one of these types of attacks will result in a prison sentence and maybe things will get cleaned up a bit. there's no room in sports for revenge like this.

Gmanc711 · 03-10-2004, 08:00 AM

Beg, as soon as you get on espn.com this morning(wend) its on the main section of the site, and they have the clip there.

Daseal · 03-10-2004, 08:27 AM

The motion thing popped up in my task bar for me.

I don't agree with the move at all, but it didn't look as bad to me as it was explained. No doubt this guy should be banned for 1 year+ but I seriously doubt he meant to break the guys neck. It was a real cheap shot and I don't agree with it, to me it just didn't seem that violent.

Obviously I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished. I just had the idea that he really wailed on the guy after he was down, looks like he just fell on him.

NY_Skinsfan · 03-10-2004, 09:13 AM

I love hockey...i love to watch the face to face fighting. I don't have a problem with fighting in hockey because for the most part it is controlled with the refs right there waiting to break up the fight as soon as a knee touches the ice. What Bertuzzi did was definitely wrong and should be punished with a hefty suspension...But it is not the worst that I have seen. There have been players that have used their sticks as a weapon and slashed at the heads of other players..That is assualt with a deadly weapon. Yes it was a cheap shot, but Bertuzzi did not intentionally plan on driving his head in the ice. That was just a seriously unfortunate thing to happen. Compare it to McSorely when he was just skating by Brashear a couple years ago. Now that was more premeditated that what Bertuzzi did.

SittingBull · 03-10-2004, 03:08 PM

He didnt just fall on him he used his forward momentum to push him down into the ice head first and used him to cushion his fall and still got some punches in after that. All this after a cheapshot from behind.

Defensewins · 03-10-2004, 04:43 PM

It looked to me like that the initial punch to the back of the head knocked the victim unconscious or helpless. His head seems to go limp after that initial sucker punch to the back of the head. So when he was rammed head first into the ICE he had no way to break the fall with his hands or arms.

johnnyredskin63 · 03-10-2004, 04:56 PM

i think the sob needs to go to jail for what he did.there are people who are gonna say he was expected to do it and it was in the heat of battle,etc...that is complete horsehockey.he knew exactly what he was doing and he needs to sit in jail awhile and think about how bad he could have really hurt that man if he had fell in another direction or somebody else could have fell on him.at the very lest he should be banned from hockey for life.the nhl is gonna announce his punishment thursday at 900am.

MTK · 03-10-2004, 08:34 PM

Here's a thought, why is fighting a part of hockey anyway? It could be argued that the fighting that is allowed in hockey leads to crap like this.

SmootSmack · 03-10-2004, 10:57 PM

This wasn't even fighting. Fighting at least you have two men going toe to toe using their fists (unlike baseball brawls where everyone just rushes the field and piles on). This was a cheap shot from behind. To make it worse after Bertuzzi drove Moore to the ground you could see him start to take a swing at the back of Moore's head until another player pulled him away.

Daseal · 03-10-2004, 11:01 PM

I think what Matty is saying is hockey is an aggressive sport because fighting is allowed. If they disallowed fighting there wouldn't be as many grudges holding over, and if he knew he would get kicked out for X amount of games he wouldnt have done it. I really dont think the instigator expected to get the results he got. I think he feels bad for seriously hurting the guy and we can all do stupid things in the heat of the moment.

Fighting is a big part of hockey, but I agree it can cause people to do things like this because violence is accepted in hockey. Not so much as this guy did but hey.

I have a question, do you guys think Lawrence Taylor should have been banned from football after snapping theismans leg? Going at the knee's is a cheap shot in football!

SmootSmack · 03-10-2004, 11:22 PM

Daseal, I see your point. Although, from my own personal experience of playing organized hockey I never really felt like the violent nature of the sport led to fighting. If anything, I felt like the fact that the sport was, by nature, aggressive, was enough of an outlet for aggression without having to resort to fisticuffs. I agree that the injury most likely wasn't intentional and the "culprit" feels remorse. Nonetheless, the punishment has to be severe otherwise the "self-policing" will continue, if you'll recall this was "retaliation" for a hit a few games earlier. The commissioner's office needs to step in before there's another retaliation.

As for LT, I don't think he was intending to go after Theismann's knees was he?

Daseal · 03-11-2004, 12:09 AM

Being as how I can hardly stay upright on solid ground I've never played hockey so I'm shooting from the hip here. I'm just saying what I see from human nature. I heard this type of thing happened the other way around in a previous match up and the guy was going for a revenge cheap shot and the guy just totally went out cold. I know I've had more power than I knew when I was mad before.

Basicly in your post you said that the guy felt remorse but must be punished for hurting another guy and ending his career, yet you defend LT who did the exact same thing. How is this a two way street? Had Wayne Gretzky been the aggitator would we be screaming for his head? I mean, I think just because of who this is he's getting hung. The announcers from the game footage didn't even seem that suprised at the hit when it first happened.

Defensewins · 03-11-2004, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

I have a question, do you guys think Lawrence Taylor should have been banned from football after snapping theismans leg? Going at the knee's is a cheap shot in football!

Of course not. Tackling somone from behind (even at the knees) is not illegal.
If LT had sucker punched Joey T. while he was walking back to the huddle and then rammed his head in the the goal post (and broke his neck), then it would be comparable.
Although the way the NFL is trying to protect QB's these days, they might see our post and make it illegal tackle a QB.

MTK · 03-11-2004, 11:45 AM

LT's intention was not to break Joey T's leg, so no he shouldn't have been held responsible for that. It wasn't a premeditated act is what it comes down to.

Bertuzzi may have not intended to break the guy's neck, but his cheap shot was premeditated and therefore needs to be addressed accordingly.

03-10-2004, 08:00 AM	#3
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 40 Posts: 7,506	Beg, as soon as you get on espn.com this morning(wend) its on the main section of the site, and they have the clip there. __________________ #21

03-10-2004, 04:56 PM	#8
johnnyredskin63 Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 203	i think the sob needs to go to jail for what he did.there are people who are gonna say he was expected to do it and it was in the heat of battle,etc...that is complete horsehockey.he knew exactly what he was doing and he needs to sit in jail awhile and think about how bad he could have really hurt that man if he had fell in another direction or somebody else could have fell on him.at the very lest he should be banned from hockey for life.the nhl is gonna announce his punishment thursday at 900am. __________________ it's me,bigredskinfan63 bigledzepfan63 "the sea was red and the sky was grey,wondered how tommorow could ever follow today HAIL TO THE REDSKINS always remember ladies and germs-THE COWBOYS SUCK

03-10-2004, 10:57 PM	#10
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	This wasn't even fighting. Fighting at least you have two men going toe to toe using their fists (unlike baseball brawls where everyone just rushes the field and piles on). This was a cheap shot from behind. To make it worse after Bertuzzi drove Moore to the ground you could see him start to take a swing at the back of Moore's head until another player pulled him away. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

03-10-2004, 11:22 PM	#12
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Daseal, I see your point. Although, from my own personal experience of playing organized hockey I never really felt like the violent nature of the sport led to fighting. If anything, I felt like the fact that the sport was, by nature, aggressive, was enough of an outlet for aggression without having to resort to fisticuffs. I agree that the injury most likely wasn't intentional and the "culprit" feels remorse. Nonetheless, the punishment has to be severe otherwise the "self-policing" will continue, if you'll recall this was "retaliation" for a hit a few games earlier. The commissioner's office needs to step in before there's another retaliation. As for LT, I don't think he was intending to go after Theismann's knees was he? __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

03-10-2004, 12:26 AM	#1
itvnetop Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 48 Posts: 3,007	on the canucks messageboards, most of the fans understand that what happened was pretty disgusting (and has no place in sports). there are still a few fans that actually say that what bertuzzi did wasn't as bad as at seems... when i see support of the perpetrator like this, it really bugs me how team allegiences can cloud certain people's perspectives on incidents like last night. we all love sports and our home teams, but i can't believe a few fans actually thought the hit wasn't "that bad."

03-10-2004, 01:09 AM	#2
skinsfanthru&thru Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 45 Posts: 3,814	I can't help but cringe whenever they show the replay of what happened. and after he'd smashed the guy's head into the ground he got in a couple more punches. With something of this nature being premeditated, he has to be suspended for more than the 20 or so games a lot of hockey people r saying will be the penalty. The guy who got attacked is actually not only for the injury not likely to be career ending but more importantly he's lucky he didn't die as a result of this cowardly attack. this is why it's hard to get into hockey and baseball sometimes cuz guys and teammates carry over grudges and try to get revenge when they get a chance. sooner or later one of these types of attacks will result in a prison sentence and maybe things will get cleaned up a bit. there's no room in sports for revenge like this.

03-10-2004, 08:27 AM	#4
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	The motion thing popped up in my task bar for me. I don't agree with the move at all, but it didn't look as bad to me as it was explained. No doubt this guy should be banned for 1 year+ but I seriously doubt he meant to break the guys neck. It was a real cheap shot and I don't agree with it, to me it just didn't seem that violent. Obviously I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished. I just had the idea that he really wailed on the guy after he was down, looks like he just fell on him.

03-10-2004, 09:13 AM	#5
NY_Skinsfan Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Albany, NY Age: 52 Posts: 838	I love hockey...i love to watch the face to face fighting. I don't have a problem with fighting in hockey because for the most part it is controlled with the refs right there waiting to break up the fight as soon as a knee touches the ice. What Bertuzzi did was definitely wrong and should be punished with a hefty suspension...But it is not the worst that I have seen. There have been players that have used their sticks as a weapon and slashed at the heads of other players..That is assualt with a deadly weapon. Yes it was a cheap shot, but Bertuzzi did not intentionally plan on driving his head in the ice. That was just a seriously unfortunate thing to happen. Compare it to McSorely when he was just skating by Brashear a couple years ago. Now that was more premeditated that what Bertuzzi did.

03-10-2004, 03:08 PM	#6
SittingBull Camp Scrub Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Fairfax< VA Posts: 89	He didnt just fall on him he used his forward momentum to push him down into the ice head first and used him to cushion his fall and still got some punches in after that. All this after a cheapshot from behind.

03-10-2004, 04:43 PM	#7
Defensewins Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,765	It looked to me like that the initial punch to the back of the head knocked the victim unconscious or helpless. His head seems to go limp after that initial sucker punch to the back of the head. So when he was rammed head first into the ICE he had no way to break the fall with his hands or arms.

03-10-2004, 08:34 PM	#9
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 53 Posts: 99,913	Here's a thought, why is fighting a part of hockey anyway? It could be argued that the fighting that is allowed in hockey leads to crap like this.

03-10-2004, 11:01 PM	#11
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	I think what Matty is saying is hockey is an aggressive sport because fighting is allowed. If they disallowed fighting there wouldn't be as many grudges holding over, and if he knew he would get kicked out for X amount of games he wouldnt have done it. I really dont think the instigator expected to get the results he got. I think he feels bad for seriously hurting the guy and we can all do stupid things in the heat of the moment. Fighting is a big part of hockey, but I agree it can cause people to do things like this because violence is accepted in hockey. Not so much as this guy did but hey. I have a question, do you guys think Lawrence Taylor should have been banned from football after snapping theismans leg? Going at the knee's is a cheap shot in football!

03-11-2004, 12:09 AM	#13
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	Being as how I can hardly stay upright on solid ground I've never played hockey so I'm shooting from the hip here. I'm just saying what I see from human nature. I heard this type of thing happened the other way around in a previous match up and the guy was going for a revenge cheap shot and the guy just totally went out cold. I know I've had more power than I knew when I was mad before. Basicly in your post you said that the guy felt remorse but must be punished for hurting another guy and ending his career, yet you defend LT who did the exact same thing. How is this a two way street? Had Wayne Gretzky been the aggitator would we be screaming for his head? I mean, I think just because of who this is he's getting hung. The announcers from the game footage didn't even seem that suprised at the hit when it first happened.

03-11-2004, 11:45 AM	#15
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 53 Posts: 99,913	LT's intention was not to break Joey T's leg, so no he shouldn't have been held responsible for that. It wasn't a premeditated act is what it comes down to. Bertuzzi may have not intended to break the guy's neck, but his cheap shot was premeditated and therefore needs to be addressed accordingly.

Violence in pro sports.

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