Selfishness and Human Nature

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

We only did it for three years and the first person was not home when we showed up to fix up the out side of their home. The next two years the people very rude and ticked off some of our members who said that was the last time they were doing that. The board agreed so we decided not to do it the following year. I'm sure if all 14 people would swear at you and throw the food down you would at some point decide its probably not worth the effort. In our case it just seemed that all the people we tried helping did not appriciate the fact that we took our Saturday to help them improve their home and we never got evne a thank you from any of them. The best part was the 2nd year the people never even came out of their home until lunch showed up and then they came out fixed a plate and went right back in without saying a word to anyone. What your doing is a great cause and I did that a few times with my grandfather who did meals on wheels 3 times a week.

Now everyone in that program was ungratful????

You first said:

Our club use to do that Paint Your Heart Out thing where you go to someones home and fix up the out side but we dropped that because the last two times we did that the people seem so ungrateful it was almost depressing knowing how hard we worked to help them out.

That makes it sound like everyone else was fine and thankful. I am starting to think you are just a negative nancy for the sake of it. You are starting to move into Hess and SBF country to me.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Now everyone in that program was ungratful????

You first said:

Our club use to do that Paint Your Heart Out thing where you go to someones home and fix up the out side but we dropped that because the last two times we did that the people seem so ungrateful it was almost depressing knowing how hard we worked to help them out.

That makes it sound like everyone else was fine and thankful. I am starting to think you are just a negative nancy for the sake of it. You are starting to move into Hess and SBF country to me.

Ok maybe I sould have worded it better but like I said the first time we did this the person was not even home. So I sound like a negative nancy because I don't care to help people who are ungrateful.Ok, then I'm a negative nancy.

I'm sure the program has helped alot of people that are very grateful for what is done but or experience was not very good.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Ok maybe I sould have worded it better but like I said the first time we did this the person was not even home. So I sound like a negative nancy because I don't care to help people who are ungrateful.Ok, then I'm a negative nancy.

No. You're selfish. Just like everyone else. Some of the value you get out of helping people is derived from their gratitude. You acquire a sense of importance to them from that. It makes you feel good. When they're not grateful, or just don't show it, then you are deprived that emotion and it becomes not worth it to you.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

No. You're selfish. Just like everyone else. Some of the value you get out of helping people is derived from their gratitude. You acquire a sense of importance to them from that. It makes you feel good. When they're not grateful, or just don't show it, then you are deprived that emotion and it becomes not worth it to you.

Damn!

Firstdown= Owned

Nice post FRPLG.

[Schneed10]

In a way, doing something just for the benefit of others, does benefit you.

You do get something out of going to the soup kitchen on Thanksgiving and helping out the homeless - you get to feel good about yourself for the good deed you did. Even if you're not thanked or recognized by anybody for it.

There are those of us who draw a lot of personal satisfaction from doing charity, it's the personal sense of satisfaction that keeps us coming back to help time after time.

In a way, being selfless is selfish, just like everything else.

[MTK]

A bigger person can look past someone's perceived lack of gratitude and say you know what, that person is better off for having crossed paths with me, and that's enough for me. Sure a thank you is nice, but it's not required. Good deeds should not have strings attached.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Damn!

Firstdown= Owned

Nice post FRPLG.

How was I owned as I agree with what he said 100%. I don't expect a thank you for everthing I do but when you gather 25 people together and spend a day helping someone a little thnak you is what someone who appreciates what you did for them says. When you knock on their door to say we are done and its like you are bothering them then yes it ticks me off.

[JoeRedskin]

I understand the doing things that make you feel good is "selfish" argument and figured it would come up sooner or later. [Did we all see the same Friends episode?]

It is correct to say that doing things that make you feel good is acting in your self interest. However, it is incorrect to say that they are per se selfish.

"selfish" has a defined meaning - it is acting in your own self interest with disregard for the interests of others. It is the disregard for others that makes actions "selfish" rather than then the knowledge that an act serves your self-interest. Doing any action in with your self-interest at heart (whether direct tangible compensation or some indirect intangible good feeling) is not in and of itself selfish. If you do the self interested act without some, either conscience or subconscience, consideration of others then the act becomes selfish.

Seeking to reap a benefit does not mean you are acting selfishly. It only means you have a healthy sense of self-awareness and are capable of acting in a manner that allows you to enjoy life. It is when we seek to reap a benefit without considering the ramifications to others that the act becomes selfish and hurtful:

If I assist at a shelter in order to feel good about myself that is a self-interested but not necessarily selfish act. The knowledge that my actions will bring me joy, simply shows that I have a healthy sense of self awareness -- I know how to act so that I can enjoy life.

On the other hand, if I go to the shelter every night to give and feel good about giving -- blissfully ignoring the fact that my wife is home alone with the kids, stressed, lonely and feeling abandoned, then acting on my self-interest is selfish.

I really think society has skewed the concept of selfishness lately and in doing so is in danger of losing the benefit of self-awareness. Only by knowing what brings joy/satisfaction, etc. to ourself, can we understand what causes that in others and, in doing so, rationally balance the causes and effects of are actions in relation to others.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

How was I owned as I agree with what he said 100%. I don't expect a thank you for everthing I do but when you gather 25 people together and spend a day helping someone a little thnak you is what someone who appreciates what you did for them says. When you knock on their door to say we are done and its like you are bothering them then yes it ticks me off.

Dude, you just contradict yourself in your own post. First you say you don't need a thank you then you say you knock on their door and you get no "thank you" which ticks you off.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Only by knowing what brings joy/satisfaction, etc. to ourself, can we understand what causes that in others and, in doing so, rationally balance the causes and effects of are actions in relation to others.

In other words, only by understanding and acting on our self interest can we "Do unto others as we would have them do unto us."

[FRPLG]

I think we are down to semantics. By a strict definition we are not "selfish" but rather self-interested as you previously stated. I believe we act in our own self-interest. All actions come from a base level of self-interest. I guess selfishness is simply a specific implementation of self-interest.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

In other words, only by understanding and acting on our self interest can we "Do unto others as we would have them do unto us."

JoeRedskin is so selfish he only quotes himself

I have done a lot of volunteer work over the past 15 or so years. And I generally enjoy it but they have almost always been fueled by self-focused motives more so than the desire to help others. Helping others has been a nice bonus, of course.

In high school-community service looks great on the resume when applying for colleges. In college-party at my place got way out of hand so I was all about community service again. Now-Here at work it's strongly encouraged, very strongly "encouraged" that you devote several hours of your time to volunteering. So my motivation quite honestly has always been that it will help me or make me look good. Furthermore, I'm particular about what volunteer work I will do. I personally really enjoy working with kids so a lot of the volunteer work generally centers around working with them. If I'm asked to volunteer at some soup kitchen to feed the homeless, will I do it? Sure, I've done it in the past but given the choice I'd rather wait for a volunteer opportunity that I enjoy.

So I wonder, how many of you that volunteer or do community service (whatever you want to call it) are the same way-your primary motive is how it will reflect upon you and you pick and choose the type of volunteer work you will do?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Dude, you just contradict yourself in your own post. First you say you don't need a thank you then you say you knock on their door and you get no "thank you" which ticks you off.

You need to learn how to read. I said

How was I owned as I agree with what he said 100%. I don't expect a thank you for everthing I do but when you gather 25 people together and spend a day helping someone a little thnak you is what someone who appreciates what you did for them says. When you knock on their door to say we are done and its like you are bothering them then yes it ticks me off.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You need to learn how to read. I said

How was I owned as I agree with what he said 100%. I don't expect a thank you for everthing I do but when you gather 25 people together and spend a day helping someone a little thnak you is what someone who appreciates what you did for them says. When you knock on their door to say we are done and its like you are bothering them then yes it ticks me off.

The point was you should not expect any thank you at all. Just know today in this thread you were owned.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I think we are down to semantics. By a strict definition we are not "selfish" but rather self-interested as you previously stated. I believe we act in our own self-interest. All actions come from a base level of self-interest. I guess selfishness is simply a specific implementation of self-interest.

I agree with your break-down, but would suggest that, in the context discussing whether humans are innately selfish or not, it is important to be clear as to the definition of the word describing the behaviour being analyzed.