Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Are you kidding?

Do I look like I'm kidding? >

[EternalEnigma21]

Its a bad idea because its a waste of money. No one truly benefits. Its like the 2 and 3 year army terms. The biggest expense the army takes on with recruits is advertising/recruiting and training. This includes the mont. GI bill. Why spend that much $ on someone and have them leave before they can be of service to you.

I can't imagine dedicating resources to 3 months of training. What do you really gain? I guess that would be the new focus of recruiting. "Hey you've already done three months, why not stay...". Not to mention they would have their undivided attention for those 3 months.

But the first 18yr old that dies in an accident or from heat exhaustion that didn't want to be a part of it would result in a huge media circus and no doubt the aclu would have a new purpose (other than defending perverts)

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Wow, so far most people agree but it seems most here agreeing served. If Bush had sugested this the press would be going nuts about forcing people to serve. They would be using words like slavery and things like that.

If nothing else, you know at least one person (sound like clek35) would be all over it.

There have been at least 4 years (as long as I've been here) of Bush bashing threads (some deserved, several not so much) so there shouldn't be much complaining if the tide is turned now and Obama and the members of his administration are scrutinized and criticized at every turn.

That said, for the love of God man, can we just drop this until at least the off-season? How is no one sick of this political talk yet?

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by saden1

You know what I really want to do? I want to do all that cool stuff national guardsmen do without the possibility of having to go to war, get a stop-loss letter, and then lose my job. That's not too much to ask is it? I'm willing to dig ditches, throw sandbags, and protect the people in the event of a zombie epidemic.

You know they have something very similar to that. Its called the coast guard. I have some friends who went after high school. I kick myself all the time for not going as well.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by EternalEnigma21

Yeah, the media is completely out to get bush and co. It has nothing to do with the fact that he is a goddamn cocky retard. "I will track down evildoers..."

What is he fucking batman? I disagree with the initiative but bush and co get off way too easy for the piss poor leadership of the last 8 years. The republicans are fully aware of it. Hence McCain. Only they decided to jump on McCains bandwagon 8yrs too late.

I love that line.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by EternalEnigma21

Its a bad idea because its a waste of money. No one truly benefits. Its like the 2 and 3 year army terms. The biggest expense the army takes on with recruits is advertising/recruiting and training. This includes the mont. GI bill. Why spend that much $ on someone and have them leave before they can be of service to you.

I can't imagine dedicating resources to 3 months of training. What do you really gain? I guess that would be the new focus of recruiting. "Hey you've already done three months, why not stay...". Not to mention they would have their undivided attention for those 3 months.

But the first 18yr old that dies in an accident or from heat exhaustion that didn't want to be a part of it would result in a huge media circus and no doubt the aclu would have a new purpose (other than defending perverts)

If it's mandatory you wouldn't be advertising or recruiting. The GI Bill requires a $1200 contribution on the individual's part and served for at least 3 years active duty (at least it did in 1995).

Also, a conscientous objector most probably would be able to fulfill his commitment doing some other form of civil service, as is the case in other countries.

I won't argue that obviously there will need to be funding for this program, though. Just maybe not as much as one might think. A lot of details need to be ironned out but who knows. I can see a sort of hybrid JobCorp-National Defense being presented.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

This is exactly the type of stuff that SHOULDN'T go on in our country. Our country was founded on the principles of a weak federal gov't that had the capability to provide national defense and some semblance of coordination between 50 SEPERATE states with common goals. Not some giant monolith that ruled over everyone. We have wandered so far from that original objective. If he wants to institute something like this because we need more military people then stop bullshitting and call it a draft. Stop trying to pretty it up with some emotional argument about "common experience". This type of thinking would be completely counter to what our country was founded on really. FORCING people to do something. Of course I guess our conutry is becoming more and more about forcing people to do things everyday. And I don't care what other countries do. The old adage about jumping off a bridge because your friend did it first comes to mind. Just because someone else does it doesn't make it right.

I hope Obama doesn't hold this same thought. I do worry though that his foundational thinking isn't as contrary as I think it would be.

We force our children to go to school everyday, hell, its even backed by law. Why do we do it? Because we want some sort of baseline education for all Americans. Education provides better opportunities for success. Not everyone has to go to college.

What would this Mandatory Defense Training provide? A baseline education in combat skills and survival for all Americans. It will provide them with greater opportunities for success. Not everyone has to sign up for full blown Military service.

You probably supported the removal of PE from schools too, didn't you?

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by Angry

We force our children to go to school everyday, hell, its even backed by law. Why do we do it? Because we want some sort of baseline education for all Americans. Education provides better opportunities for success. Not everyone has to go to college.

What would this Mandatory Defense Training provide? A baseline education in combat skills and survival for all Americans. It will provide them with greater opportunities for success. Not everyone has to sign up for full blown Military service.

You probably supported the removal of PE from schools too, didn't you?

come on now, that has to be the most retarded comparison i've ever heard. are you really trying to make a connection between education in math, science, history,etc.. to learning military tactics ?

[wolfeskins]

what's next, taking babies from their families and forcing them to learn gymnastics and compete in the olympics ?

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by wolfeskins

come on now, that has to be the most retarded comparison i've ever heard. are you really trying to make a connection between education in math, science, history,etc.. to learning military tactics ?

Yes, because military training teaches you map reading, history, math, land navigation, first aid, physical education, problem solving, communication skills, and it makes you grow the hell up really quick because they instill discipline.

Why do yo think that employers try to snatch us up so quickly? Because our training goes beyond the battlefield. Tactics and how to shoot a rifle are only a portion of the skills learned by the soldier.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Angry

We force our children to go to school everyday, hell, its even backed by law. Why do we do it? Because we want some sort of baseline education for all Americans. Education provides better opportunities for success. Not everyone has to go to college.

What would this Mandatory Defense Training provide? A baseline education in combat skills and survival for all Americans. It will provide them with greater opportunities for success. Not everyone has to sign up for full blown Military service.

You probably supported the removal of PE from schools too, didn't you?

Educating children isn't quite the same in my book. We don't force people to go to college. There are defined lines we already have.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Angry

Yes, because military training teaches you map reading, history, math, land navigation, first aid, physical education, problem solving, communication skills, and it makes you grow the hell up really quick because they instill discipline.

Why do yo think that employers try to snatch us up so quickly? Because our training goes beyond the battlefield. Tactics and how to shoot a rifle are only a portion of the skills learned by the soldier.

Sounds like a perfect solution to our obesity problem.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by saden1

Sounds like a perfect solution to our obesity problem.

Always a commedian.

Look, to all of those who disagree with me, I feel that you all have valid arguments. However, I also feel that most of you share those points of view because you have no first hand experience. Ask anyone who has served, or at least been through basic training or boot camp. I would be willing to wager that the majority would say that they would do it all over again if they were could go back in time and change their lives.

In my honest opinion, I believe that it is an experience that most would benefit from, whether they felt forced at first or not. Like many of our mothers used to tell us "how do you know that you won't like it until you try it"?

Anyway, I have already expressed my opinion on it, and that view will not change. I will not argue this issue any further. I do not think that the forthcomming administration has the nuts to try and pass this anyway, so why do we even bother ourselves with the concecpt?

[Beemnseven]

Amendment 13 of the United States Constitution:

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Sounds pretty damn unconstitutional if you ask me.

But then, that's never stopped anybody.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Amendment 13 of the United States Constitution:

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Sounds pretty damn unconstitutional if you ask me.

But then, that's never stopped anybody.

Jury Duty is not involuntary servitutude? At least you get somewhat of a paycheck in the service.