Dan Snyder losing respectability?

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

You don't find that Snyder has a hard time sticking to a plan? With the one and done that Schottenheimer had and making adjustments to what Gibbs was trying to leave in place.

That's what makes it so frustrating to be apart of the Skins is the constant change of direction. I like sticking to a plan when it seems conceived by an informed body. I thought Gibbs was informed on how to build stability in an organization, I guess Snyder thinks otherwise. Looks like we'll have to wait another four years to find out.

Let's evaluate:

He bought the team in '99 and inherited a rather subpar coach in terms of record and respect. He also inherited a GM that had in all reality done nothing other than win a SB with a HOF coach and a team built by a different GM. To complicate the issue Casserly and Turner didn't work well together. Snyder is on record as saying that when he got the team he HAD to make a change because of the relationship issues between Charllie and Norv. Due to the timing he could only get rid of Casserly so he did. He thinks that was a mistake but he had no choice.

Then Norv goes on to take a decent team and do an average job with it. He loses the team essentially and again Snyder feels forced to do something so he cans Turner mid-season.

Two moves that were probably mistakes at the time but at least were born out of real problems.

Then he goes outside he comfort zone and brings in someone to run the whole deal. Marty goes forth and loses his first 5 games after gutting the team. He does win 8 of 11 to close out but in the end this isn't the model than Snyder is comfortable with. Again he gets rid of a staff member because it didn't fit what he wanted to do.

He brings in SPurrier who was rather regarded as a shoe-in to be a great coach. But Spurrier doesn't have a lot of talent nor does he have the drive to be an NFL coach. He equits when Snyder was prepared to keep him on give it another go.

Then Gibbs comes in and the situation is probably perfect for Snyder. He has a strong coach with lots fo respect who will also work WITH Snyder and his guys to build an orginzation. But GIbbs resigns amid family issues and here we are.

So sticking to a plan? I think in the beginning he had no plan. Then he figured one out and didn't like it. Since then he hasn't giving up on anything.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

love your optimism,wish I had it,to me sally jenkins was right on in most of what she said,and it looks like spag took her advice
right now were the laughingstock of the nfl,maybe even worse than the raiders,my local nfl columnist is tearing us up{and his wife is a huge redskin fan} the columnist in other cities are tearing us up,and rightfully so
And how can you say "fuck the fans" ? what are you? Are you a fan? I know you are,so what does that mean when you say fk the fans? does that mean fk you?
And what is this great plan? so far the only plan snyder has had that was worth a shit was rehiring gibbs,which didnt quite work out as good as we had hoped,so far none of snyders plans have worked out the way anyone had hoped,so why should we believe in him now? Right now 99 percent of redskin nation,IMO,thinks snyder doesnt have a clue,maybe he will get lucky and end up hiring a coach that can pull this team together,and i sincerely hope he does,I just cant see it happenning,any coach he hires is going to be another one of his puppets,even Cowher.If somehow he does manage to hire cowher hes still his puppet,at least for 1 yr till cowher can hire people he wants here.
Till dannyboy hires a qaulified gm and stays the hell out of the way I cant see us gaining any respectability,unless of course we win,winning cures all ills

Yeah, I'm a fan. But I don't believe in getting all upset based on speculation of who may or may not be the head coach. Fans that are all "Season's over. 8-8 at best" All because of some rumors in January? Yeah, fuck them. Get a fucking life. If you want to be upset when we're 1-4 and have no offensive gameplan that's one thing, but all this "jump off a bridge" mentality now is, to me, pathetic. Look, I know people don't like it when I say it but I' truly believe that if we are indeed the laughingstock of the league-which I don't agree with-it's due in large part to the fact that the majority of Redskins fans have no clue and have no patience. Much less than for most other teams.

People say he has no clue, but they themselves really have no clue why they are saying that. They named coordinators before they chose a head coach so he has no clue? Never mind that other teams have picked coaches before the head coach. He hasn't hired a General Manager so he has no clue? How many people have really paid attention to the team's scouting department and all the strong work Scott Campbell has done in building the team over the past several years? And now he's being rewarded for it. The whole coaching search? Assumptions all over the place. And then people turning it into "Well Snyder said..." NO. Snyder never said anything. It's just that people want to assume, they want to speculate. They insist on the Redskins having patience, but refuse to have any themselves.

And where things get dangerous, as I've also said before, is when Snyder forgets that he is no longer just a fan and adopts that same desperate mentality. But I think in recent years he has fully realized that he is the owner, not just some fan, and has acted as such.

And look I'm not happy with the results on the field overall the past several years. I want us to win as often and as much as anyone else here, but I also realize that it's a marathon not a sprint, and that it's ridiculous to think that 31 teams are in better shape than we are.

[That Guy]

its a stupid front office structure and danny wants a coach that's not going to argue about it (which means you're passing on most of the top tier prospects immediately).

[SmootSmack]

What's stupid about it?

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

And look I'm not happy with the results on the field overall the past several years. I want us to win as often and as much as anyone else here, but I also realize that it's a marathon not a sprint, and that it's ridiculous to think that 31 teams are in better shape than we are.

well, we're picking at 21, so we're worse than about 11 teams... not too bad, but with the potential downgrade in coaching staff and the massive changes on offense, it's hard to see the team grasping it immediately, and, in the short term, we're going to have at least one adjustment season before we can see real results.

FA and the draft can help bump the talent level to compensate though, and you're right when you say it's too early to tell, but so far, things aren't as promising as they could have (easily) been.

who knows, maybe fassel actually turns out to be a great coach. I don't have any evidence of that, but in two years we'll know either way for sure.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by That Guy

FA and the draft can help bump the talent level to compensate though, and you're right when you say it's too early to tell, but so far, things aren't as promising as they could have (easily) been.

That's the key here. If they screw up this free agency and draft season, (and you/me/Smootsmack among others will have a good idea right off the bat), then we will have a legitimate beef that this FO structure isn't working. Until then, we're just going to have to assume that they have a plan.

[skinsnut]

This is a funny thread.
If snyder only has respect from half of us warpath "hard-core redskins supporters" think of how much less he has for those that dont pull for the Skins.

The Gibbs hire temporarily gave him a boost in PR and respect but that has been reversed.

And regarding Coaching candidates.
It has been known for years as a player, if you want a raise and secretly want to stay with your team...talk to washington and you will get what you want...if your home team wont pay, washington will and you can play with your wallet rather than your heart.

When Snyder realized he couldn't buy a championship by buying players, he did it with coaches. Why is anyone suprised that coaching candidates talked to washington and suddendly got what they wanted at home?

It is a matter of the skins increasing prices for coaches and players.
Washington is being played a good portion of the time for personal gain.
To me...this certainly represents a lack of respect from both coaches and players.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Yeah, I'm a fan. But I don't believe in getting all upset based on speculation of who may or may not be the head coach. Fans that are all "Season's over. 8-8 at best" All because of some rumors in January? Yeah, fuck them. Get a fucking life. If you want to be upset when we're 1-4 and have no offensive gameplan that's one thing, but all this "jump off a bridge" mentality now is, to me, pathetic. Look, I know people don't like it when I say it but I' truly believe that if we are indeed the laughingstock of the league-which I don't agree with-it's due in large part to the fact that the majority of Redskins fans have no clue and have no patience. Much less than for most other teams.

People say he has no clue, but they themselves really have no clue why they are saying that. They named coordinators before they chose a head coach so he has no clue? Never mind that other teams have picked coaches before the head coach. He hasn't hired a General Manager so he has no clue? How many people have really paid attention to the team's scouting department and all the strong work Scott Campbell has done in building the team over the past several years? And now he's being rewarded for it. The whole coaching search? Assumptions all over the place. And then people turning it into "Well Snyder said..." NO. Snyder never said anything. It's just that people want to assume, they want to speculate. They insist on the Redskins having patience, but refuse to have any themselves.

And where things get dangerous, as I've also said before, is when Snyder forgets that he is no longer just a fan and adopts that same desperate mentality. But I think in recent years he has fully realized that he is the owner, not just some fan, and has acted as such.

And look I'm not happy with the results on the field overall the past several years. I want us to win as often and as much as anyone else here, but I also realize that it's a marathon not a sprint, and that it's ridiculous to think that 31 teams are in better shape than we are.

first off,no one would say seasons over-8-8 at best because of speculation in january,they say that when were 5-7 and our coach is calling wrong timeouts and our best player was just murdered
2nd off,were not considered laughing stocks because of redskin fans showing no patience,its because of ownership and front office,that statement couldnt be further from the truth
3rd-so what if other teams have hired other coaches before the head coach,that doesnt make it a smart move
4th-never said 31 other teams are better off than us,I dont believe that,but right now 31 other teams look like they know what the hell they are doing{with the exception of the raiders,and thats a maybe}
5th-in recent yrs he did seem to have that mentality,but only the gibbs yrs,before that,no,after that,another no

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Look, I know people don't like it when I say it but I' truly believe that if we are indeed the laughingstock of the league-which I don't agree with-it's due in large part to the fact that the majority of Redskins fans have no clue and have no patience.

Mr Smack,
I respect much of your opinion whether I agree or not.

But, I believe you must have been pissed when you wrote this one.
No one in the press is being critical of the redskins FANS...they are being critical of Dan Snyder.

You certainly must agree with that.

The question is whether that is warranted or not.
Our fans for the most part...even the skeptical ones have been more than patient with the whims of a young owner learning on the job while sacrificing potential years of early success.
We all hope together that he is learning and makes the right choices

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

first off,no one would say seasons over-8-8 at best because of speculation in january,they say that when were 5-7 and our coach is calling wrong timeouts and our best player was just murdered
2nd off,were not considered laughing stocks because of redskin fans showing no patience,its because of ownership and front office,that statement couldnt be further from the truth
3rd-so what if other teams have hired other coaches before the head coach,that doesnt make it a smart move
4th-never said 31 other teams are better off than us,I dont believe that,but right now 31 other teams look like they know what the hell they are doing{with the exception of the raiders,and thats a maybe}
5th-in recent yrs he did seem to have that mentality,but only the gibbs yrs,before that,no,after that,another no

1. People all over this board have been saying season's over before it even starts (here's just one example: http://www.redskinswarpath.com/418658-post1.html). To be fair though, their opinions should be given no thought but they are posting on Redskins message boards representing Redskins fans to everyone.

2. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

3. See #2

4. Why do you think other teams know what they're doing? What proof do you have that teams like the Falcons and Ravens know what they're doing?

5. Another no after the Gibbs years? Based on what?

[htownskinfan]

this article from john mclain of the houston chronicle:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is difficult to tell which organization is more of an embarrassment — Washington or Oakland.

Atlanta had moved in front, but with the hiring of Patriots scouting director Tom Dimitroff as general manager and Jaguars defensive coordinator Mike Smith as head coach, normalcy seems to have returned to the Falcons.

The Redskins and Raiders are running neck-and-neck to see which organization can become the most embarrassing in the NFL.

When Joe Gibbs retired as coach after the season, he said he would stick around to help the Redskins make a smooth transition. Just about everyone thought assistant head coach/defense Gregg Williams would be elevated. Al Saunders would stay to run the offense. Jerry Gray would be elevated to run the defense.

Players on both sides of the ball endorsed Williams publicly, but Williams was fired Saturday. On Friday, ESPN reported that one reason Williams didn't get the job was because he criticized Gibbs in his interviews with owner Daniel Snyder and executive vice president Vinny Cerrato.

Anyone who knows Williams knows he wouldn't be dumb enough to criticize Gibbs in an interview. The leak sounds like something Snyder and Cerrato would put out to discredit the coach so many wanted. What better way to make Williams look bad than to say he was critical of the beloved Gibbs?

Jacksonville and St. Louis are interested in Williams becoming their defensive coordinator, and the Rams are interested in Saunders as offensive coordinator.

Meanwhile, on Saturday, Snyder and Cerrato announced that Greg Blache, who coached the defensive line and had the title of defensive coordinator under Williams, would run the defense.

On Friday, Jim Zorn was hired as offensive coordinator, which means quarterback Jason Campbell will have to learn his third system in four seasons.

Now there's only one problem: The Redskins don't have a head coach. Will it be Jim Fassel? What about Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo? What a way to do business.

With Snyder and Cerrato running amok, longtime Redskins fans are reminded of the Steve Spurrier era. Snyder and Cerrato controlled everything, and the Redskins were 12-20 over two seasons.


I dont see anything in there about the fans

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Mr Smack,
I respect much of your opinion whether I agree or not.

But, I believe you must have been pissed when you wrote this one.
No one in the press is being critical of the redskins FANS...they are being critical of Dan Snyder.

You certainly must agree with that.

The question is whether that is warranted or not.
Our fans for the most part...even the skeptical ones have been more than patient with the whims of a young owner learning on the job while sacrificing potential years of early success.
We all hope together that he is learning and makes the right choices

Mr. Smack? Wow, nice touch

No, I wasn't pissed. I'll retract the statement because I know whenever I bash the fans here everyone gets up in arms.

[htownskinfan]

5. Another no after the Gibbs years? Based on what?[/QUOTE]

based on Gibbs backing williams and saunders and danny going in the opposite direction and doing who knows what

[SmootSmack]

based on Gibbs backing williams and saunders and danny going in the opposite direction and doing who knows what

Well Gibbs didn't back Saunders. And as for backing Williams, Snyder and Williams went through four interviews and couldn't resolve what everyone knows has been a less than cordial relationship for four years.

Now, would you rather he had hired Williams knowing neither really cares for each other and would have a hard time working together. And would probably look to split at the first true opportunity? Or would you rather they just cut the cord now before it got really ugly?

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well Gibbs didn't back Saunders. And as for backing Williams, Snyder and Williams went through four interviews and couldn't resolve what everyone knows has been a less than cordial relationship for four years.

Now, would you rather he had hired Williams knowing neither really cares for each other and would have a hard time working together. And would probably look to split at the first true opportunity? Or would you rather they just cut the cord now before it got really ugly?

it was gibbs who hired saunders,so i would say thats backing him,as for wiliams,yes i would have rather he hired him and see how it worked out
Has snyder got along with anybody besides gibbs?