Patrick Ramsey Vs Philip Rivers

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Ramsey has a better TD/INT ratio than about 1/3 of the quarterbacks that saw game time this season(Jake Plummer, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Rex Grossman, Eli Manning, etc.), and he fumbles far less than Daunte Culpepper, Kurt Warner, and Drew Bledsoe. I think calling him a "turnover machine" is a bit of an overstatement.

OK fine, but saying he's better at taking care of the ball than Plummer, Carr, Harrington, and youngsters Grossman and Manning isn't saying much; and it certainly doesn't make a strong case for why Ramsey should be considered worthy of anything higher than a 3rd round pick, which was my main point.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by celts32

Rivers is still pretty much an unknown so his value is close to where it started which is 1st round. Ramsey has played a good amount and has been mistake proned which has raised concerns as to whether he can be a starting QB. His value started as a late #1 and has fallen to a mid round pick at best.

Ramsey may be better than Rivers, but the difference is that Ramsey has shown his hand and Rivers has not.

I think we have a winner.

Just to add my own hot air to the discussion...Ramsey has already shown what he can and can't do, Rivers is still relatively unknown.

Plus Rivers was more highly regarded coming out of school.

[Monksdown]

Im going to expand a touch on what you said Matty. We know essentially what Patrick can't do. And that's put up solid numbers consistently.

I don't think Philip is in the mix for us. But I will say that I would rather have a wild card, then a 3 of clubs.

[dmek25]

first of all,no way to have an official debate about this without offiss.second,i cant see any gm in the nfl that would think that p rivers is worth more than ramsey(and for the record,im not in love with #11)at the very least with ramsey you have a qb that has somewhat of an idea what goes on in an actual game,with rivers EVERYTHING is a mystery.plus,he has one of the funkyest throwing motions in the league

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

Im going to expand a touch on what you said Matty. We know essentially what Patrick can't do. And that's put up solid numbers consistently.

I don't think Philip is in the mix for us. But I will say that I would rather have a wild card, then a 3 of clubs.

Monksdown, some would argue while Patrick hasn't put up consistent numbers he did so while playing under Spurrier's collegiate style offense. And since JG has arrived, Patrick hasn't had much of chance to prove himself otherwise.

[12thMan]

I might add it's a little refreshing that this debate isn't about Ramsey and Brunell, but Ramsey and Rivers.

[Monksdown]

I retract. In 2003 Patrick started 11 games.

14 Td
9 Int
75.8 rating

His rating is 10 pts lower than we would like. And he wasn't exactly the 2 minute drill type of qb we would like.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I might add it's a little refreshing that this debate isn't about Ramsey and Brunell, but Ramsey and Rivers.

But how can we include LaVar in this discussion. That's what I want to know

By the way, are you being sued?

[Dana87]

I think some of you are missing the point of the discussion. I am not saying that either Ramsey or Rivers is worth a 1st round pick. I am however saying that if NFL scouts consider Rivers worth a 1st rnd pick then IMHO you have to consider Ramsey as well. I've seen quite a few responses that feel that we've seen what Ramsey can do and what he can't do. While I respect your opinion I think you've let your emotions get the best of you. When Ramsey came into the league he had hardly been given a chance to develope when he was thrown to the wolves with the worst blocking scheme ever in the NFL. And he was still respectable, not great but respectable. His second year the blocking was even worse and the kid hung in while getting absolutly clobbered game after game, and he for the most part kept us competitive. Now he has had a chance to play in a solid system and get NFL Tutaledge I think he has developed quite a bit. He played pretty well down the stretch in '04 and played well in the little bit of action he saw in the Giant game. Now I am not saying that I know he is ready to lead a team, but I am saying that we don't know that he isn,t ready. That just can't be determined yet. Hasslebeck for years looked lost at QB in Seattle now he's the top rated QB in the NFC.

[MTK]

Dana87, there's nothing emotional about it, Ramsey is not worth a first round pick and that's not an emotional opinion, that's an opinion shared by nearly every NFL GM/scout/decision maker, it's just reality.

If you think Ramsey is worth a first round pick, then you my friend is the one with the emotional attachment.

[12thMan]

I might add that David Carr would beg to differ with you on who has the worst blocking scheme in the NFL.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I might add that David Carr would beg to differ with you on who has the worst blocking scheme in the NFL.

I don't think there's any debating that point.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Dana87, there's nothing emotional about it, Ramsey is not worth a first round pick and that's not an emotional opinion, that's an opinion shared by nearly every NFL GM/scout/decision maker, it's just reality.

If you think Ramsey is worth a first round pick, then you my friend is the one with the emotional attachment.

I brought up the point, before, however that he was worth a first rounder when we got Brunell. Gibbs knew then who he wanted to run his O, we should have traded him then.

I know, hindsight's 20/20, but I thought we should have traded him then too.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

By the way, are you being sued?

We all know who's the original 12thMan!

Will one of you guys represent me if I have to contact Paul Allen and bring this matter to his attention?

[ST21]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

At this point, I doubt it. We drafted Campbell higher than he was rated and, even at the time we drafted him, he was viewed as a project.

Rivers was/is viewed as someone who can compete for a starting job right now with the expectation that he should be able to win the competition.

In evaluating trade value, Ramsey is more similar to Rivers than Campbell but with the caveat that Ramsey has already demonstrated some significant faults that call into question his ability to be THE quarterback whereas Rivers' faults, if any, are still very much an unknown.

IF Campbell were on the block, I am betting he would be worth a solid 3, MAYBE a 2.

Really, I've got this from ESPN draft board, and at the time in question was his accuracy, but Gibbs has put that to rest.....he was more than a project on some people board he was a head of Rodgers......:

Updated: Jan. 28, 2005
ESPN.com evaluation: QB Jason Campbell



Scouts, Inc.




Editor's note: Practice notes will be updated daily and a final report will be completed on Friday, Jan. 28.

No player improved his draft value more in 2004 than Jason Campbell. After struggling through three extremely inconsistent seasons, Campbell thrived as a senior in what was his fourth offensive scheme in four years. New offensive coordinator Al Borges found the right fit for Campbell, as his West Coast scheme simplified things and gave Campbell a lot more definitive reads to make. As his confidence grew, so too did his production. Most impressive was Campbell's improvement in regards to his decision-making skills, as he threw 13 more touchdowns (19) than interceptions (6). Campbell has the physical tools of a first round pick but there are still questions about his accuracy and ability to see the entire field. If he can answer some of those questions this week, he has an opportunity to solidify a spot in the second round of the upcoming draft.