Gibbs needs help

[diehardskin2982]

Isn't Mike Martz's offense a Hybrid of the original Gibbs offense?

[gusbus]

Are any of you watching the CAR vs CHI game? The OC for CAR is Dan Henning, a Gibbes clone. They are running the same plays that we run, counter tray included. The difference is a very capable QB who can put some zip on it, a very good healthy OL, and capable #2 receiver (Ricky P.). "In three years, Dan Henning has transformed the Panthers offense from last in the National Football League to one of the NFL's more efficient attacks."
I think we need another year and some good off season acquisitions. No block buster deals just good quality players.

[RedskinPete]

Originally Posted by CooleyFan

Now, let me just start this out by saying....


Joe Gibbs has given me a reason to believe in my Redskins once again. Gibby needs help. Musgrave sucks. West Coast? No. The NFL isn't going to be slow enough for the counter tray, or these line pulls anymore. It's a dying breed of offense, and there is no place in football for it anymore. We need to go out in the off season and get an offensive mind to help poor Joe. I love Joe, but I need to say what everyone else is scared to say. He's too old.

I think if we got a good West Coast guy... like (i hate to say it) but ol' Norval Turner, maybe we can establish more of a deep impact. I friggin hate Norv, but he is an offensive mind. Have you guys seen the forlorn looks on ol' Joe's face everytime the offense falters? He can't understand the fast pace game. I know I'm gonna get hate mail, but it needs to be addressed. I know Joe is a genius, and I hope he proves me wrong, but he will NOT take us to a SuperBowl. I hope he proves me wrong.

This is a team with only one WR!!! The rest suck!!! Get two more good ones and this will make us very good!!!

[wolfeskins]

while i don't put all our offensive problems on joe gibbs, i must say he still needs to open it up a bit more. he opened it up this year compared to last but not quite enough. having another dependable wr could help out big time though. i guess he couldn't do but so much having only portis, cooley and moss.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by wolfeskins

while i don't put all our offensive problems on joe gibbs, i must say he still needs to open it up a bit more. he opened it up this year compared to last but not quite enough. having another dependable wr could help out big time though. i guess he couldn't do but so much having only portis, cooley and moss.

Look. There is something you and alot of other fans have to realize. This offense is a BALL CONTROLLED offense. It lives and dies by the run. The running game is what opens this offense up. It's not going to change! The running game is what brought us this far. When the running game is hitting on all cylinders, it opens the passing game. It has ALWAYS been that way. If the running game is stuffed, how do you expect to open things up with only one deep threat? It's not going to happen! If you have more than one true deep threat at WR, then it's possible...but not with ONLY Moss running down the field. Gibbs doesn't have to do anything with the philosophy of the offense. The philosophy isn't broken, outdated, or unintelligent. It has already been proven it works - in fact, it is Gibbs relying heavily on the run and the short ball controlled passes that gave us that 6 game winning streak. Honestly, anyone on this board who is thinking seriously about calling themselves realists and believes they know more about winning in the playoffs and coaching than Joe Gibbs....you need to seriously have your head examined! Gibbs knows exactly what works and what doesn't.

All Gibbs needs is another deep threat receiver. He knows that...that is what they hoped Patten would be. Unfortunately, Patten didn't prove to be a threat when he was playing, and then was injured. Gibbs knows one more weapon will make a difference. In my opinion, that is ALL this offense needs.

BTW Wolfskins, I wasn't directing this post toward you or picking on you...but it's just a general statement to all Redskins fans.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Look. There is something you and alot of other fans have to realize. This offense is a BALL CONTROLLED offense. It lives and dies by the run. The running game is what opens this offense up. It's not going to change! The running game is what brought us this far. When the running game is hitting on all cylinders, it opens the passing game. It has ALWAYS been that way. If the running game is stuffed, how do you expect to open things up with only one deep threat? It's not going to happen! If you have more than one true deep threat at WR, then it's possible...but not with ONLY Moss running down the field. Gibbs doesn't have to do anything with the philosophy of the offense. The philosophy isn't broken, outdated, or unintelligent. It has already been proven it works - in fact, it is Gibbs relying heavily on the run and the short ball controlled passes that gave us that 6 game winning streak. Honestly, anyone on this board who is thinking seriously about calling themselves realists and believes they know more about winning in the playoffs and coaching than Joe Gibbs....you need to seriously have your head examined! Gibbs knows exactly what works and what doesn't.

All Gibbs needs is another deep threat receiver. He knows that...that is what they hoped Patten would be. Unfortunately, Patten didn't prove to be a threat when he was playing, and then was injured. Gibbs knows one more weapon will make a difference. In my opinion, that is ALL this offense needs.

BTW Wolfskins, I wasn't directing this post toward you or picking on you...but it's just a general statement to all Redskins fans.

Nicely done skinsguy!
For those of you who would like Gibb's to "OPEN" up the O, he has to have the weapons to do so. That will hope fully be accomplished this off season. Check out the 1991 team stats, and you can see the team running wide open! Numerous offensive records went down that year.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Nicely done skinsguy!
For those of you who would like Gibb's to "OPEN" up the O, he has to have the weapons to do so. That will hope fully be accomplished this off season. Check out the 1991 team stats, and you can see the team running wide open! Numerous offensive records went down that year.

Yep! And if you look at the personnel of the offense that year = Art Monk, Gary Clark, Ricky Sanders! Are you kidding me??? People wonder why doesn't Joe Gibbs open the offense up?? If we had just one more WR such as one of these guys - namely a Gary Clark - then you'll see the offense open up. Gibbs made things work with what he has. So in a way, I guess that Gibbs does tweak his offense according to what style of players he has on the field, but the major philosophy and approach of the offense doesn't change.

Take for instance this year: Gibbs tweaked the offensive running game enough to add in "Denver Style running plays" for Clinton Portis. Although alot of people were saying that Gibbs should have ditched Redskins style of running soley in favor of the Denver style (the counter trey plays being Redskins football) this is not a smart thing to do. You always keep your bread and butter plays in there, but you add on to the game plan. Next, look at Mark Brunell. He still does have an arm, although it isn't a young strong arm like what Mark Rypien had years ago. Therefore, Gibbs calls plays within the ability of what Brunell can do to be successful. If Gibbs called for the majority of his passing plays to be all 40+ plays, he's going to wear Brunell's arm out pretty fast. I realize this is where the argument of Patrick Ramsey comes into play, but this is where I have been preaching that you have to take advantage of ALL the aspects of a quarterback NOT just his arm. Mark Brunell proved himself to be a total quarterback. He's reliable and he's a safe choice. He's obviously not THE best qb in the league - but THE best QB in the league didn't even make it to the championship game this year! (Peyton Manning.) Remember Brad Johnson? Good quarterback but didn't have a strong arm - yet he guided the Bucs to a Super Bowl championship. Having a strong arm does help, but it's not the hands down answer to an offense's question for success.

Next season, I expect that Joe Gibbs will probably see what he can do to give Santana Moss some help. He'll also probably see about getting some depth on our offensive line. I believe those two things are the major concerns for this team - not quarterback. Next season could very well be Brunell's last season - and if it is, we should feel confident that guys like Jason Campbell have had the opportunity to be brought up the way a young QB should be brought up into this league - watching a good well seasoned veteran quarterback run the offense. Believe me, it benefits a young quarterback alot more to see what SHOULD be done on the field, as opposed to watching another qb who, himself, is still trying to develop.

What I am interested in for next season is seeing where ol' Nemo fits into the offensive equation. Gibbs has always loved big strong Riggins sized backs, and Nemo would really help in short yardage situations. I hope they continue to develop this kid.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Nicely done skinsguy!
For those of you who would like Gibb's to "OPEN" up the O, he has to have the weapons to do so. That will hope fully be accomplished this off season. Check out the 1991 team stats, and you can see the team running wide open! Numerous offensive records went down that year.

did you guys read my entire post or just my first two sentences where i suggested gibbs could possibly "open up" the offense a bit more ? because i went on to say that gibbs could'nt "open it up" so much do to the fact that moss, cooley and portis are the only true threats on offense. i agree 100% with you guys about the skins needing another wr and gibbs running a ball control offense. everyone knows gibbs wants a ball control offense , i'm fine with that. what i'm suggesting when i use the term "open up" the offense is gibbs taking a few more shots down the field (even if they are incomplete) the pass can open up the run just as well as the run opening up the pass. i would also like to see gibbs use the middle of the field with some of his pass plays (i could prolly count on one hand the number of passes completed in the middle). the last way i think he could "open" things up is by using the rb screen with portis (did they run that play at all this year with portis ?) i think portis would do very well with it.

other folks on this site may use the term "open up" differently then i do. i do not want the skins to become a "pass first" offense, i would just like to see a little bit more of the things i suggested obove.

believe me when i say "i love joe gibbs as our coach" he made some "minor" adjustments from last season to this season (shotgun, some runblocking changes, different formations,etc...) i'm just suggesting a few more "minor" changes.

[CooleyFan]

Originally Posted by wolfeskins

while i don't put all our offensive problems on joe gibbs, i must say he still needs to open it up a bit more. he opened it up this year compared to last but not quite enough. having another dependable wr could help out big time though. i guess he couldn't do but so much having only portis, cooley and moss.

We did open it up more, but you do gotta understand halfway through the season, teams were studying Santana Moss in the videorooms, and had all the plays and everything called. It was very hard to get single man-man defense on Santana, so it was hard for him to get open. They all shut him down pretty good after that Dallas game. Hard to open it up when you have two safeties and a CB on Santana Moss, suffocating him. Cooley isn't that fast, but he has JUST enough to get into the secondary, past the linebackers. Weapons are precious. Once a team nabs your style, you gotta do other things just to get it done.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by CooleyFan

We did open it up more, but you do gotta understand halfway through the season, teams were studying Santana Moss in the videorooms, and had all the plays and everything called. It was very hard to get single man-man defense on Santana, so it was hard for him to get open. They all shut him down pretty good after that Dallas game. Hard to open it up when you have two safeties and a CB on Santana Moss, suffocating him. Cooley isn't that fast, but he has JUST enough to get into the secondary, past the linebackers. Weapons are precious. Once a team nabs your style, you gotta do other things just to get it done.

yea, i agree with you. read what i said in post #24, it sums up my feelings better than my other quote that you used.

[CooleyFan]

Let's just not forget what I said... 2 weeks before it happened. GIBBS NEEDS AN OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR, RIGHT? WHAT HAPPENED? Who started this thread? Whats the title of this thread? When's the date of the first post? I'm the foolish fairweather fan, right? Gibbs de-throned himself, and gave up the offense just to bring this franchise back to glory. If I'm fairweather, so is Gibbs. Thanks. I'll be here all week.

[celts32]

This thread is f-ing rediculous...Gibbs took a floundering franchise and revitalized it and got them into the final 8. He doesn't need any help at all unless he says he does...he may need a couple talent upgrades in a couple spots, but to say his coaching is somehow flawed is f-ing rediculous.

[skinsttw]

Gibbs is the man. We need a few more weapons on offense and upgrade the lines. Then we are set. Tough schedule coming up again next year. Need to build with the draft, if possible.

[Master4Caster]

I've said this before. I wouldn't presume to pretend that I know half as much as Joe Gibbs has forgotten about game planning!!!

Norv Turner? Are you kidding? The guy who gave us Michael Westbrook, Heath Schuler and Desmond Howard? You want to go back to that?

I like the direction Gibbs is taking the team. I like the progress they are making. This is the NFC East. We play east coast ball here. To win this division you play with power - that's snot-knocking defense and ball control.

[That Guy]

the counter trey does worked, and we've got one of the fastest guards in the nfl to run it with, we've gotten 20 yard runs and TDs with it, so i don't think that's something you can nitpick. The super conservative playcalling mode gibbs goes into at times is troublesome and i don't like how content he is to sit on 3 and 7 point leads with 40+ minutes left to play (ugh), but it got us to 10-6 (with GW and blanche on defense of course)...