Make your Case for non-HOFer

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

I am saying this without bothering to double check what I have been told - so someone is welcome to correct me. Aren't Gary Clark's numbers better in every significant category than Michael Irvin?

Here are Clark's career statistics:

Receptions 699/ Yards 10856/ Yards per catch 15.5/ TDs 65/ Lg 84 yards

It would appear that these are indeed Hall Of Fame numbers by Gary Clark. But the 699 career receptions appears to be Clark's only limitation. Michael Irvin had 750 career receptions(just 51 more than Clark) with 1,000 yards or so more yards and he and Clark are both tied with 65 TD catches.

Irvin is in the HOF. Irvin's career numbers are truthfully no better than Clark's. Gary Clark is due enshrinement.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Plenty of "stars" play on special teams. Deion was one of the best return men. Darrell Green retuned punts in big situations. Percy Harvin, Desean Jackson, Dez Bryant, all play teams to name a few.

None of those guys regularly do it. This last year- Percy had 16, Desean had 17, and Dez had 18. Deion is the closest, but was taken off return duty after his first pro bowl year.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinster

None of those guys regularly do it. This last year- Percy had 16, Desean had 17, and Dez had 18. Deion is the closest, but was taken off return duty after his first pro bowl year.

All you said was if it's so important, put your star players out there, which teams do when the situation warrants it.

Special teams are important. Just ask any team that misses a FG in the playoffs or SB, or gives up a return for a score.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

All you said was if it's so important, put your star players out there, which teams do when the situation warrants it.

Special teams are important. Just ask any team that misses a FG in the playoffs or SB, or gives up a return for a score.

Yeah, in important situations they go out there. If it was really important, every return would have the best players out there.

Just because it can make a difference doesn't mean its important. Unless your team has horrible special teams, the difference from any teams special team's impact on the season to anothers is so minimal its almost negligible. They can swing a close game, but how often that happens is so rare and varied that in the long run it all cancels out.

[Leader In Sports]

I will put a disclaimer on this because of my relationship with him, but how is Maxie Baughan not in the HOF:

Maxie Baughan NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

9 Time Pro Bowl Linebacker who also won a championship with the Eagles in 1960. If you take out the year he came to the Skins as a player coach after retiring for a couple of years, he only missed the Pro Bowl his third year and final year.

[imaskin4life]

Bo Jackson would certainly be in the HOF if he took football seriously and didn't play baseball. He only played football half the season due to his baseball career and was not really in football shape.

At the 1986 combine Bo Jackson as a rookie runs a 4.12 40 yard dash - the fastest ever recorded, and by the way - dude is a 230 pound rock. In baseball he would snap baseball bats in half over his head and over his knee regularly.

You couldnt tackle Bo Jackson straight up unless you wanted a separated shoulder or your jaw wired shut. You couldnt tackle him if you had the perfect pursuit angle either because he would easily out run it being the fastest on the field. You just stay the **** out of his way and watch him score because you suck.

[CrustyRedskin]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

Here are Clark's career statistics:

Receptions 699/ Yards 10856/ Yards per catch 15.5/ TDs 65/ Lg 84 yards

It would appear that these are indeed Hall Of Fame numbers by Gary Clark. But the 699 career receptions appears to be Clark's only limitation. Michael Irvin had 750 career receptions(just 51 more than Clark) with 1,000 yards or so more yards and he and Clark are both tied with 65 TD catches.

Irvin is in the HOF. Irvin's career numbers are truthfully no better than Clark's. Gary Clark is due enshrinement.

I agree man but..


Perception and public promotion.


BTW Mcnabb thinks he should get in. vomit:

but he does have better regular season numbers than Kelly and Aikman. Public perception im tellin ya.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by imaskin4life

Bo Jackson would certainly be in the HOF if he took football seriously and didn't play baseball. He only played football half the season due to his baseball career and was not really in football shape.

At the 1986 combine Bo Jackson as a rookie runs a 4.12 40 yard dash - the fastest ever recorded, and by the way - dude is a 230 pound rock. In baseball he would snap baseball bats in half over his head and over his knee regularly.

You couldnt tackle Bo Jackson straight up unless you wanted a separated shoulder or your jaw wired shut. You couldnt tackle him if you had the perfect pursuit angle either because he would easily out run it being the fastest on the field. You just stay the **** out of his way and watch him score because you suck.

That seals it for me. I know the measurement of a good baseball player is someone who can snap baseball bats in half over their head. Bo Jackson is definitely worthy of enshrinement.

[Paintrain]

How about Sterling Sharpe? He was one of the top 3 WR for about a 5 year span but had his career cut short by injuries. He's basically the Gale Sayers of the WR position.

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by CrustyRedskin

I agree man but..


Perception and public promotion.


BTW Mcnabb thinks he should get in. vomit:

but he does have better regular season numbers than Kelly and Aikman. Public perception im tellin ya.

I agree with McNabb that he is a HOFer. Maybe not first ballot, but I can see him getting in.

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

How about Sterling Sharpe? He was one of the top 3 WR for about a 5 year span but had his career cut short by injuries. He's basically the Gale Sayers of the WR position.

We had this discussion a while ago. There is a back log of receivers and he is WAY down the list.

[imaskin4life]

Originally Posted by mooby

That seals it for me. I know the measurement of a good baseball player is someone who can snap baseball bats in half over their head. Bo Jackson is definitely worthy of enshrinement.

With no hands!

[CrustyRedskin]

Gary Clark vs Lynn Swann

Clark: 11 Years REC 699 YDS 10,856 AVG 15.5 TDS 65

Swann: 9 Years REC 336 YDS 5,462 AVG 16.3 TDS 51

Cant find their playoff stats to compare for some reason.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by CrustyRedskin

Gary Clark vs Lynn Swann

Clark: 11 Years REC 699 YDS 10,856 AVG 15.5 TDS 65

Swann: 9 Years REC 336 YDS 5,462 AVG 16.3 TDS 51

Cant find their playoff stats to compare for some reason.

Irrelevant comparison. The eras are drastically different. There was much more emphasis on throwing the ball in Clark's day than in Swann's.

If you're going to use Lynn Swann as the compare point for receivers in the 80s and 90s then Al Toon, Irving Fryar, Derrick Mason, and Keenan McCardell are all hall of famers.

Gary Clark is 29th in career receiving yards. The following is just a sample of the players ahead of him on the list, none of whom are in the HOF:

Isaac Bruce, Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Henry Ellard, Tory Holt, Andre Reed, Irving Fryar, Jimmy Smith, Hines Ward, Derrick Mason, Reggie Wayne, Muhsin Muhammed, Rod Smith, Keenan McCardell, Joey Galloway.

So until Carter, Brown, Ellard and Reed get in, all players from Clark's era, then Clark doesn't deserve it.

[CrustyRedskin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Irrelevant comparison. The eras are drastically different. There was much more emphasis on throwing the ball in Clark's day than in Swann's.

If you're going to use Lynn Swann as the compare point for receivers in the 80s and 90s then Al Toon, Irving Fryar, Derrick Mason, and Keenan McCardell are all hall of famers.

Gary Clark is 29th in career receiving yards. The following is just a sample of the players ahead of him on the list, none of whom are in the HOF:

Isaac Bruce, Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Henry Ellard, Tory Holt, Andre Reed, Irving Fryar, Jimmy Smith, Hines Ward, Derrick Mason, Reggie Wayne, Muhsin Muhammed, Rod Smith, Keenan McCardell, Joey Galloway.

So until Carter, Brown, Ellard and Reed get in, all players from Clark's era, then Clark doesn't deserve it.

If Swann doesnt make a few highlight catches in the Super Bowl does he still get in?? Clark had a few important Super Bowl TD'S and catches himself.

But i do understand your point about eras.