Secondary is a Primary

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I dont think cutting Hall and saving 7+mil in cap space and replacing him with someone like McKelvin at 3.5 mil is assanine. I think it would be an improvement coverage-wise.

Hey I agree, DHall played well down the stretch, about the first time in 2 years. Id like to get younger, along with more consistent play at CB. Also spending a high pick on a CB to come in and compete for a starting position/slot corner serves us well. I think you'll be able to find a similarly skilled CB such as D Hall if there is a problem for a cheap price.

I wholeheartedly agree. DeAngelo Hall's game Sometimes he's good but most of the time he's terrible. His main weakness is that he has always had trouble covering elite NFL receivers. Anquan Boldin scorched him for TDs last year and although he did well against Dez Bryant, it still can't make up for the tons of yardage that Hall gives up. I think Hall will end his career as a FS like Ronde Barber and Rod Woodson.

[budw38]

I would say its certain that the Skins will use an early pic on a DB . Maybe a F/A also . I think how well cb's Crawford and Minnifield look might affect how we draft. Merriweather and T. Jackson returning could only help . Maybe find a De/Lb in the mid rounds who can really put heat on the Qb ?

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by budw38

I would say its certain that the Skins will use an early pic on a DB . Maybe a F/A also . I think how well cb's Crawford and Minnifield look might affect how we draft. Merriweather and T. Jackson returning could only help . Maybe find a De/Lb in the mid rounds who can really put heat on the Qb ?

Well how did they look? Minniefield cannot be counted on to be healthy and Crawford looked decent but certainly isnt ready to start. At this point, I think they are competing for depth at the CB position. I dont think they affect how we draft.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Well how did they look? Minniefield cannot be counted on to be healthy and Crawford looked decent but certainly isnt ready to start. At this point, I think they are competing for depth at the CB position. I dont think they affect how we draft.

I was suggesting , if the coaches see something over the next 2 months , such as Minnifield running at 100% they might take a ( S ) or ( T ) in rd 2 as opposed to a ( CB ) because of a run on corners in rd 2. As far a Merriweather and T Jackson , how they look or how much they really like them as opposed to who is available in rd/s 2 & 3 could affect which pics they make . I hope we draft either CB or S with our 2nd rd pic , we need a pro bowl type guy in our secondary . Im confident that Allen and Co. will make the necessary moves in regards to the secondary .

[Chico23231]

T Jax shouldnt be on the team. He's a free agent and shouldnt be resigned.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

T Jax shouldnt be on the team. He's a free agent and shouldnt be resigned.

Yeah he's not even eligible for reinstatement until Aug 31, meaning he can't even step foot in Redskins Park all offseason. Hard to see him back with the team.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

T Jax shouldnt be on the team. He's a free agent and shouldnt be resigned.

T Jax is good as gone.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by budw38

I was suggesting , if the coaches see something over the next 2 months , such as Minnifield running at 100% they might take a ( S ) or ( T ) in rd 2 as opposed to a ( CB ) because of a run on corners in rd 2. As far a Merriweather and T Jackson , how they look or how much they really like them as opposed to who is available in rd/s 2 & 3 could affect which pics they make . I hope we draft either CB or S with our 2nd rd pic , we need a pro bowl type guy in our secondary. Im confident that Allen and Co. will make the necessary moves in regards to the secondary .

You make a good point about the development of players who are already on the roster affecting draft day decisions. In the case of drafting a CB, it's not just the development of CB's who are already on the roster that might affect the round(s) in which we take a CB but many other circumstances, as well.

For example, what if the Skins are very pleased with the progress that OT Tom Compton has made and rate him above any potential Right OT that they might get in the draft. That might cause them to turn away from drafting an OT in Rnd 2 who they rate higher than a CB who they decide to draft instead.

What if London Fletcher decides to retire? Would the Skins move heaven and earth to move up into Rnd 1 to draft a player like Kevin Minter? That would probably mean trading our 2nd Rnd pick and more.

Regardless of what we do internally or by way of FA to upgrade the CB and/or safety positions, I feel certain that we're going to address both of those areas at some point in the draft. That's because we need more depth in those positions and this year's draft is deeper than usual at those positions.

[budw38]

Agree with you KI , we should be able to find both S and CB in what looks like a deep draft !

[Chico23231]

Scouts take on Cornerbacks from Keim's report:

Eyeing the draft: Cornerbacks

With no first-round pick, the Redskins won’t have a chance to grab one of the elite players at a position. But they still can find a solid player in the second. Considering cornerback is a position of need — even if they keep DeAngelo Hall and re-sign Cedric Griffin — we’ll take a look at this spot with the help from ex-NFL scout Russ Lande, currently in charge of scouting for the National Football Post. These are not Lande’s official rankings but rather grouped by projected rounds.

The top corners in the draft are easy to identify: Alabama’s Dee Milliner and Florida State’s Xavier Rhodes. Lande said Milliner is a “real athletic kid, powerful. Willing to play physical, which NFL teams love because most corners are not. He’s the whole package.” And of Rhodes, Lande said, “Very good size. Well-built kid. He can run. He’s been a dominant guy since he stepped on the field at Florida State. He’ll play, and he’ll play early.”

A couple high-round guys we did not discuss: Rutgers’ Logan Ryan and Southeastern Louisiana’s Robert Alford, both of whom project as second-rounders. Ex-Redskins safety Matt Bowen likes Alford: “He’s 5-9, but Tim Jennings had nine picks for the Bears, and he’s about 5-2. It doesn’t really matter. Alford competes.” Ryan, at 6-feet, 190 pounds, has good size and plays physical. But he only runs the 40-yard dash in the 4.5s.

Here’s what Lande has to say about the other corners who could tempt the Redskins in the second and third rounds (if they’re available).

Desmond Trufant, Washington

“A lot of scouts see him as a third- or fourth-round player off film, but at the Senior Bowl he was awesome. I’ve heard a lot of scouts say, ‘I don’t like him.’ He’s 5-11 and will run in the mid to low 4.4s, and he had a great week in front of the coaches. He’ll be a first-round pick, and he’ll get picked on. He’s athletic and willing to play physical. He is tough. The question is can he become a more consistent corner. He’ll get picked higher than his production warrants because he’s so gifted.”

Range » Late first-early second. He’s unlikely to fall to the Redskins’ pick at 51.

Jamar Taylor, Boise State

“He’s a well-built kid, and he is explosive. He can close on the ball in a heartbeat. He really impresses me. He’ll be a very good player. He’s a tough, physical aggressive corner. He has very quick feet. He has a nice backpedal. He can change directions easily. He’s a little aggressive trying to make plays, and that will lead to him biting on receivers when they make a fake or when a quarterback pump fakes it. He’s the type of guy physically who can stay with most receivers. He has good size. He’s an intriguing kid. He’s a guy I wouldn’t be shocked if a month from now people are talking about him as a late first-round pick. When you’re 5-11 and explosive, which he is, those guys tend to zoom up the draft boards.”

Range » Late first-second.

Johnthan Banks, Mississippi State

“He’s one of the most interesting corners in the draft. When you look at him physically and watch him play, there are many similarities to Jimmy Smith in terms of pure talent. He’s a long linear kid who can run and has loose hips and great coverage skills and instincts. He’s just real thin. He gets pushed around at the point of attack, and receivers get open because they shove him off. But it’s hard to find 6-2 corners with great feet and natural hips and good coverage skills. That’s the type of guy you want to take a gamble on. He’s a smart kid; he’s already graduated. He has a lot of positive traits in terms of character and intangibles, which leads me to believe he’ll keep getting better. There are a lot of scouts that like him.”

Range » Late first-second.

Jordan Poyer, Oregon State

“He’s very instinctive, a little thin. Great break on the ball. Poyer was also at the Senior Bowl. He’s a good player, but he’s not a blazer. That will be the thing that leads him to being there in the second round. I’ll bet he runs in the mid 4.5s at the combine, but he’s a really good player. He has a good feel for what’s going on. He’s one of those guys who gets in the league without a lot of pub and two years later when he’s a good starter you’re like, ‘How did he end up being drafted in the second round?’ He has a feel you can’t teach. He reads the route combinations, the quarterback. He reads all of that well.”

Range » Second-third round.

Leon McFadden, San Diego State

“He’s a kid that three years from now people will say, ‘Son of a gun, he’s another guy we overlooked.’ If you just watched film and never worried about 40 times, you’d say his production warrants a first- or second-round grade. He’s 5-10. He’s physical. He’s aggressive. He’s so smooth and athletic, and his technique is great. He’s just not a fast kid, so premier fast guys will run by him. But the bulk of receivers, he’ll stay on their hip and disrupt their route. He reads the route, he closes and he makes plays on the ball. Then you add in the fact that he’s not only willing but he loves to come up and make hits and tackle. He’s a really good player. I don’t think he’ll run well; I’d say high 4.5s. But every scout I speak to is saying, ‘I hope my team snares him in the third round; I think he’ll be a starter even though he runs bad.’ ”

Range » Third-fourth round.

Darius Slay, Mississippi State

“He’s not as well-known as the Banks kid, who is obviously a premier prospect. But he’s a really good player. You watch film on this kid, and he’s the type of guy who gets overlooked because Banks is playing across from him. But he’s a good sized kid — 6-1 or 5-11 and a half. A good athlete. He’s a quick twitch kid who can explode and close on the ball. Definitely as a slot corner he’ll play, and he has potential to be a starter.”

Range » Third round.

Terry Hawthorne, Illinois

“Talk about a kid who should be a first-round pick. He’s 6-foot, and he can run with anybody. He’s a tremendous athlete. But I don’t know what it is. … I spoke to a bunch of different scouts, and they think it’s a lack of football instincts with him because he has no real awareness where the receiver is or when the ball is coming. He’s often right there, right on the hip, and then the guy turns and catches the ball, and he has no idea it’s coming. But he’s a gifted kid who I think will work out tremendously well. It’ll lead to some team taking a gamble on him way higher than his production dictates.”

As a possible safety: “A big part of that is because he’s not great when his back is to the quarterback. When you’re in coverage and he can’t watch the quarterback, he struggles. When he can watch the quarterback, he’s more effective. I don’t think he’s consistently physical as a tackler, and he doesn’t fly up to make tackles. Those guys make me nervous putting them at safety.”

Range » Fifth round.

More corner chatter

» Is Chase Minnifield a realistic option for 2013? Difficult to say, but there’s a definite sense that the Redskins would not have kept him around after the ACL surgery on his knee last summer otherwise. It marked the second time in six months that he needed surgery on that knee, the first being a microfracture surgery in January. The problem with microfracture surgeries is that it increases the likelihood of more surgery for that knee.

But the point is this: If the Redskins did not think Minnifield might help them, they would not have kept him around. He’s working out at Redskins Park and said to be running fine on the treadmill. Of course, cutting is another matter. It’s uncertain when the Redskins would let him return to full-time work in terms of offseason practices.

There’s still a risk of him incurring further injury because of the surgeries he’s had, so fingers must be constantly crossed with him. Still, the Redskins are telling people that he’s rehabbing well. Eventually we’ll find out how well.

» So Pro Football Focus suggested Bills corner Leodis McKelvin as a potential target for the Redskins? Here’s what one Bills insider said in an email about McKelvin: “1 of 10 most physically gifted CBs in the league, but … relies solely on physical ability, and that gets him in trouble. Rarely in position to make plays on the ball. Inconsistent with his leverage, doesn’t have a feel for his coverage assignments week to week. Just kind of goes out and plays. … Dynamic returner because his physical ability can take over, but when he has to read plays and make quick decisions, he’s late to the party on defense.”

[Chico23231]

Safety prospects from Keim's report:

Eyeing the draft: Safety

With no first-round pick the Redskins won’t have a chance to grab one of the elite players at a position. But they can still find a solid player in the second. Considering safety is a primary position of need, we’ll take a look at this spot first with the help from ex-NFL scout Russ Lande, currently in charge of scouting for the National Football Post. These are not Lande’s official rankings, but rather grouped by projected rounds. There are two corners included because some teams consider them best at safety.

1. FS Kenny Vaccaro, Texas »

“He’s the only guy that is consistently productive in coverage, not just playing deep. There were one or two times this year they brought him down and said this receiver is your guy and he covered him the whole game. He can cover in the slot, the tight end, deep. He comes up in run support. He’s a hitter and a tackler. He’s a top-10 guy in the draft – better than Mark Barron coming out a year ago. There’s no question he’s a better athlete.”

Range: First round. Barron was picked seventh by Tampa Bay last April. Obviously the Redskins have no shot at him.

2. FS Eric Reid, LSU »

“He’ll be the next guy picked. He’s a tremendous athlete, a highly competitive kid who loves blowing plays up. He flies around the field and plays with an ‘I’m going to knock your head off’ attitude. He gets out of control and misses tackles but athletically he’s all there. He has great range. I’d like to see more consistency. He likes to bite on stuff.”

Range: Middle of the first round to around 25. That’s too early for the Redskins.

3. SS Matt Elam, Florida »

“He’s a very intriguing kid. He’ll have issues. He’s the old-school, close-to-the-line-of-scrimmage safety. There aren’t many teams that play with differentiated safeties. Most have to cover and this kid has issues in coverage. He’s not great in coverage. He’s not a big kid, but he can run with guys man to man. But at 5-foot-10, it’s an issue defending the pass against tight ends. Against the run this kid is a missile. He attacks the play. He can get through traffic. He’s more a launch-and-hit guy than a wrap-up guy. There’s a lot to like about what he contributes against the run; he’s a physical player. He could be exposed in coverage at the next level. He may be a backup, but he’ll be a dynamic special teams guy.”

Range: Second round. He could be available at 51 when the Redskins pick.

4. SS Jonathan Cyprien, Florida International »

“This kid walks in the room and [people are like], ‘That’s my guy.’ He’s muscled up, thick, but athletic. He has nice feet and can peddle and change direction. He’s what you want in today’s NFL. He can be a box guy, but he can cover. It wouldn’t floor me if he ends up being the second or third safety taken. He’s a really good player. But small-school guys aren’t well-known and that will cause some teams to pass him up. He occasionally would get flexed deep and at the Senior Bowl people were shocked at how easily he moved and his range. I was standing with a DB coach who has been in the NFL or Division I college football for more than 20 years and he said, ‘Russ, I’m telling you those are the feet of a starting safety. This is what you want in a starting safety.’ “

Range: Second. At one point he seemed like a safe bet to be available for the Redskins’ first pick. But after offseason workouts he could go higher.

5. FS Bacarri Rambo, Georgia »

“He’s an athletic kid and can run. He has great coverage skills, especially when you look at the history of covering in the slot and tight ends. He’s not afraid to hit guys even though he’s slender-framed. He’s not big. He’s versatile.”

Range: Second-third round. He’ll be available for Washington. One good thing for the Redskins: Their ex-linebackers coach, Kirk Olivadotti, is Georgia’s linebackers coach and could provide a good scouting report for them.

6. FS Tony Jefferson, Oklahoma »

“Very athletic. Long, linear. He can hit but he misses a ton of tackles. He really misses a lot of tackles. A low, dive-and-lunge guy. I wonder about his overall awareness. He often seems lost in coverage. He’s an athlete and he’ll probably work out well.”

Range: Second-third round. Clearly in the Redskins’ range.

7. FS Phillip Thomas, Fresno State »

“He’s one of those typical Fresno State guys who plays with a chip on their shoulder. An aggressive kid. Good at everything, but not elite at anything. That’s why teams like him. He’s not a special athlete, but he’s a good one. He’s effective in coverage. He’s not Ed Reed. Overall he’s just one of those guys who will probably be a workmanlike starter, but not a guy you read about much. He does his job and doesn’t make errors but he won’t make highlight-reel plays. He’ll be a consistent guy. He’ll have some trouble with really fast guys if you pair him up one on one, but otherwise he’s a good solid player.”

Range: Second-third round.

8. FS T.J. McDonald, Southern California »

“I’m not a big fan of him. Someone will take him in the second or at worst in the third. He’s what you want when getting off the bus. He looks like an All-Pro specimen. But when you put in the game film he’s a disappointment. He doesn’t attack the play; he’s hoping teammates make the play. When he wants to he makes it, but he’s not a consistent tackler. He can be one of those guys who strikes a guy and knocks him off his feet and does it with great technique about once a game. He can run and he has range deep and over the tight end but I don’t know if he’s instinctive or not being real aggressive. But he always seems to be on the periphery and not involved in a lot of plays. At the Senior Bowl I had a few people say he didn’t look good moving around with those other athletes.”

Range: Second-third round.

9. CB/FS David Amerson, N.C. State »

“He’s been a corner his whole life. Many projected him as a top-10 pick as a corner [before last season]. But he’s not a fast guy. If a team plays cover-2 and their corners don’t have to be great runners, … or if you want a real athletic safety who’s willing to hit, he could be the sleeper safety of the draft. He’s tall, linear and for a safety he can run and is athletic.”

Range: Second to third round. His future could be at corner or safety.

10. SS Shawn Williams, Georgia »

“One kid who will go higher than he should. I could see any team where the coaches have the power falling in love with him. Like McDonald, walking off the bus this kid is unbelievable. He has the intangibles, the leadership. He’s top of the line and he’s freaky smart so when you put him on the chalkboard he’ll be unbelievable. The problem is he’s not very good. But he’s a three-year starter and so smart that some team will say he’ll be a great last guy on defense and making the calls. But he’ll have trouble in coverage because even though he’s athletic ,he’s not natural in terms of football. Even at the Senior Bowl where he wasn’t impressive he just looks the part. Rambo is the better player.”

Range: Third round.

11. SS Duke Williams, Nevada »

“The kid who may end up being the best of all of them other than Vacarro. He’s a violent player. He flies up the field. He also played a bunch of corner. He’s 6-foot or 5-11 and is versatile, and in today’s NFL teams will love having a guy like him because he can move around. He’s a smart kid. He’s one of the more intriguing guys at the position because of his experience at corner and his willingness to hit. He’ll test great on the chalkboard.”

Range: Third-fifth rounds.

12. FS D.J. Swearinger, Clemson »

“He has experience covering and being deep. He’s aggressive. He has great range and versatility. I like him. He’s not a guy you take in the second, but in the third or fourth round area he’s very intriguing. He’s a good player.”

Range: Fourth round.

13. CB/FS Micah Hyde, Iowa »

“He’s not a high pick, maybe a fourth rounder. He’s a very intriguing kid. He started his whole career at corner. He’s a tall, long-armed linear athlete. But he’s not an explosive kid, which is why he could be moved out of corner and to safety. But he’s so smooth and a very bright kid. I don’t love him, but I could see him being that type of guy who people aren’t high on but who gets into camp and you say he’s a smooth, fluid athlete and does all the things you want him to do.”

Range: Fourth-sixth rounds.

14. SS JJ Wilcox, Georgia Southern »

“He’s a dominant small-school kid. The big question on him is when you watch a play he looks like he’s fast enough and a good athlete, but you want to see how he handles it in coverage in the NFL. The biggest issue I have with him is, does he have the athleticism and speed to cover at the NFL level?”

Range: Fifth-sixth round.

15. SS Cooper Taylor, Richmond »

“He has a chance to not just make it but be good. He started his career at Georgia Tech. He measured in at 6-4 ½ and 225 pounds and he looked so athletic for a big kid with such range. I know a lot of teams don’t like tall safeties because they don’t feel they can change directions and can be exposed. But in all-star games he doesn’t look like he has any issue in coverage.”

Range: Late rounds.

[budw38]

Thanks for the scouting of DBs Chico . I read some similar scouting reports on Walters football and rotoworld .

[Skinzman]

2. FS Eric Reid, LSU »

“He’ll be the next guy picked. He’s a tremendous athlete, a highly competitive kid who loves blowing plays up. He flies around the field and plays with an ‘I’m going to knock your head off’ attitude. He gets out of control and misses tackles but athletically he’s all there. He has great range. I’d like to see more consistency. He likes to bite on stuff.”

Did anyone read this about Eric Reid and think:

2. FS Laron Landry, LSU »

“He’ll be the next guy picked. He’s a tremendous athlete, a highly competitive kid who loves blowing plays up. He flies around the field and plays with an ‘I’m going to knock your head off’ attitude. He gets out of control and misses tackles but athletically he’s all there. He has great range. I’d like to see more consistency. He likes to bite on stuff.”

[budw38]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Did anyone read this about Eric Reid and think:

2. FS Laron Landry, LSU »

“He’ll be the next guy picked. He’s a tremendous athlete, a highly competitive kid who loves blowing plays up. He flies around the field and plays with an ‘I’m going to knock your head off’ attitude. He gets out of control and misses tackles but athletically he’s all there. He has great range. I’d like to see more consistency. He likes to bite on stuff.”

Yes , LOL . Everyone likes Reid , but every scouting report says the same thing , gets beat too often . The .... Jets , Raiders or Rams can have him.

[CultBrennan59]

Love the scouting reports. And I want to point out that earlier Keim made a great point about "If Chase wasn't in the Redskins plans for next year, they would have cut him." But also that Keim said "his multiple surgeries on his knee and microfracture surgery, make him more injury prone when cutting" which is also a big problem.


As for the scouting;

- I've come to start liking Cyprien the past few weeks, now I feel like he'll go in the first.
- Elam not being able to cover TE's in the NFL could be a problem; didn't really think of that, because his plays of flying all over the field and knocking out players came to mind first.
- I watched Vaccaro in a couple of games and just thought that he was good, not top 10 good. He maybe great against the pass but run support..eh not that good.
- I think that TJ McDonald could, could be the next Kam Chancellor. They both were star players on their teams but had many questions by scouts in terms of coverage, backpedaling and changing direction. I think that TJ will go 4-6 range in the draft and be a starting Safety in the NFL.