Violence in pro sports.

Ghost · 03-10-2004, 01:20 AM

I haven't seen the clip and I don't really follow hockey but if the guy's a normal human being, he's probably feeling like shit tonight because he lost it and hurt somebody and brought true shame to himself and his family. Secondarily, his career could be over. Not really defending a goon who acts like that but I try to see both sides.

SittingBull · 03-10-2004, 01:29 AM

They were showing some of his past hits on Sportscenter tonight and ALL of them were cheapshots from behind or blindspot. He's a pussy and has problems with who he is if he has to resort to stuff like that.

Gmanc711 · 03-10-2004, 07:00 AM

Beg, as soon as you get on espn.com this morning(wend) its on the main section of the site, and they have the clip there.

Daseal · 03-10-2004, 07:27 AM

The motion thing popped up in my task bar for me.

I don't agree with the move at all, but it didn't look as bad to me as it was explained. No doubt this guy should be banned for 1 year+ but I seriously doubt he meant to break the guys neck. It was a real cheap shot and I don't agree with it, to me it just didn't seem that violent.

Obviously I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished. I just had the idea that he really wailed on the guy after he was down, looks like he just fell on him.

NY_Skinsfan · 03-10-2004, 08:13 AM

I love hockey...i love to watch the face to face fighting. I don't have a problem with fighting in hockey because for the most part it is controlled with the refs right there waiting to break up the fight as soon as a knee touches the ice. What Bertuzzi did was definitely wrong and should be punished with a hefty suspension...But it is not the worst that I have seen. There have been players that have used their sticks as a weapon and slashed at the heads of other players..That is assualt with a deadly weapon. Yes it was a cheap shot, but Bertuzzi did not intentionally plan on driving his head in the ice. That was just a seriously unfortunate thing to happen. Compare it to McSorely when he was just skating by Brashear a couple years ago. Now that was more premeditated that what Bertuzzi did.

SittingBull · 03-10-2004, 02:08 PM

He didnt just fall on him he used his forward momentum to push him down into the ice head first and used him to cushion his fall and still got some punches in after that. All this after a cheapshot from behind.

Defensewins · 03-10-2004, 03:43 PM

It looked to me like that the initial punch to the back of the head knocked the victim unconscious or helpless. His head seems to go limp after that initial sucker punch to the back of the head. So when he was rammed head first into the ICE he had no way to break the fall with his hands or arms.

johnnyredskin63 · 03-10-2004, 03:56 PM

i think the sob needs to go to jail for what he did.there are people who are gonna say he was expected to do it and it was in the heat of battle,etc...that is complete horsehockey.he knew exactly what he was doing and he needs to sit in jail awhile and think about how bad he could have really hurt that man if he had fell in another direction or somebody else could have fell on him.at the very lest he should be banned from hockey for life.the nhl is gonna announce his punishment thursday at 900am.

MTK · 03-10-2004, 07:34 PM

Here's a thought, why is fighting a part of hockey anyway? It could be argued that the fighting that is allowed in hockey leads to crap like this.

SmootSmack · 03-10-2004, 09:57 PM

This wasn't even fighting. Fighting at least you have two men going toe to toe using their fists (unlike baseball brawls where everyone just rushes the field and piles on). This was a cheap shot from behind. To make it worse after Bertuzzi drove Moore to the ground you could see him start to take a swing at the back of Moore's head until another player pulled him away.

Daseal · 03-10-2004, 10:01 PM

I think what Matty is saying is hockey is an aggressive sport because fighting is allowed. If they disallowed fighting there wouldn't be as many grudges holding over, and if he knew he would get kicked out for X amount of games he wouldnt have done it. I really dont think the instigator expected to get the results he got. I think he feels bad for seriously hurting the guy and we can all do stupid things in the heat of the moment.

Fighting is a big part of hockey, but I agree it can cause people to do things like this because violence is accepted in hockey. Not so much as this guy did but hey.

I have a question, do you guys think Lawrence Taylor should have been banned from football after snapping theismans leg? Going at the knee's is a cheap shot in football!

SmootSmack · 03-10-2004, 10:22 PM

Daseal, I see your point. Although, from my own personal experience of playing organized hockey I never really felt like the violent nature of the sport led to fighting. If anything, I felt like the fact that the sport was, by nature, aggressive, was enough of an outlet for aggression without having to resort to fisticuffs. I agree that the injury most likely wasn't intentional and the "culprit" feels remorse. Nonetheless, the punishment has to be severe otherwise the "self-policing" will continue, if you'll recall this was "retaliation" for a hit a few games earlier. The commissioner's office needs to step in before there's another retaliation.

As for LT, I don't think he was intending to go after Theismann's knees was he?

Daseal · 03-10-2004, 11:09 PM

Being as how I can hardly stay upright on solid ground I've never played hockey so I'm shooting from the hip here. I'm just saying what I see from human nature. I heard this type of thing happened the other way around in a previous match up and the guy was going for a revenge cheap shot and the guy just totally went out cold. I know I've had more power than I knew when I was mad before.

Basicly in your post you said that the guy felt remorse but must be punished for hurting another guy and ending his career, yet you defend LT who did the exact same thing. How is this a two way street? Had Wayne Gretzky been the aggitator would we be screaming for his head? I mean, I think just because of who this is he's getting hung. The announcers from the game footage didn't even seem that suprised at the hit when it first happened.

SmootSmack · 03-10-2004, 11:26 PM

The difference between Taylor and Bertuzzi as I see it is that from what I remember Taylor was just making a tackle. I don't think it was intentional for him to undercut Theismann's legs and it wasn't any sort of retaliation.

Let me put it this way, while Bertuzzi probably didn't mean to hurt Moore the way he did it was a deliberate cheap shot so it would be akin to if Theismann had scrambled out of bounds then LT drilled him helmet first in the back while he's still out of bounds.

Had Bertuzzi caused the injury with a solid forecheck I think it would be a different story

SittingBull · 03-10-2004, 11:47 PM

If Wayne Gretskey did cheap shots like that he wouldnt be held in such high self esteem as he is/was so he probably would be penalized harshly as well if he hit someone from behind and bulldogged him to the ground. The LT incident isnt a valid comparison because it was during a play. If Bertuzzi inflicted a neck injury during a body check or defending a rush towards the goal head on then the wolves wouldnt be out to get him like they are now. If LT chop blocked Theissman after the whistle was blown when he wasnt prepared and broke his leg he definitely would have been suspended indefinitely.

Damn smoot you beat me to it =P

03-10-2004, 01:20 AM	#16
Ghost Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 298	I haven't seen the clip and I don't really follow hockey but if the guy's a normal human being, he's probably feeling like shit tonight because he lost it and hurt somebody and brought true shame to himself and his family. Secondarily, his career could be over. Not really defending a goon who acts like that but I try to see both sides. Last edited by Ghost; 03-10-2004 at 01:24 AM.

03-10-2004, 07:00 AM	#18
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 38 Posts: 7,506	Beg, as soon as you get on espn.com this morning(wend) its on the main section of the site, and they have the clip there. __________________ #21

03-10-2004, 03:56 PM	#23
johnnyredskin63 Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 203	i think the sob needs to go to jail for what he did.there are people who are gonna say he was expected to do it and it was in the heat of battle,etc...that is complete horsehockey.he knew exactly what he was doing and he needs to sit in jail awhile and think about how bad he could have really hurt that man if he had fell in another direction or somebody else could have fell on him.at the very lest he should be banned from hockey for life.the nhl is gonna announce his punishment thursday at 900am. __________________ it's me,bigredskinfan63 bigledzepfan63 "the sea was red and the sky was grey,wondered how tommorow could ever follow today HAIL TO THE REDSKINS always remember ladies and germs-THE COWBOYS SUCK

03-10-2004, 09:57 PM	#25
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	This wasn't even fighting. Fighting at least you have two men going toe to toe using their fists (unlike baseball brawls where everyone just rushes the field and piles on). This was a cheap shot from behind. To make it worse after Bertuzzi drove Moore to the ground you could see him start to take a swing at the back of Moore's head until another player pulled him away. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

03-10-2004, 10:22 PM	#27
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Daseal, I see your point. Although, from my own personal experience of playing organized hockey I never really felt like the violent nature of the sport led to fighting. If anything, I felt like the fact that the sport was, by nature, aggressive, was enough of an outlet for aggression without having to resort to fisticuffs. I agree that the injury most likely wasn't intentional and the "culprit" feels remorse. Nonetheless, the punishment has to be severe otherwise the "self-policing" will continue, if you'll recall this was "retaliation" for a hit a few games earlier. The commissioner's office needs to step in before there's another retaliation. As for LT, I don't think he was intending to go after Theismann's knees was he? __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

03-10-2004, 01:29 AM	#17
SittingBull Camp Scrub Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Fairfax< VA Posts: 89	They were showing some of his past hits on Sportscenter tonight and ALL of them were cheapshots from behind or blindspot. He's a pussy and has problems with who he is if he has to resort to stuff like that.

03-10-2004, 07:27 AM	#19
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	The motion thing popped up in my task bar for me. I don't agree with the move at all, but it didn't look as bad to me as it was explained. No doubt this guy should be banned for 1 year+ but I seriously doubt he meant to break the guys neck. It was a real cheap shot and I don't agree with it, to me it just didn't seem that violent. Obviously I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished. I just had the idea that he really wailed on the guy after he was down, looks like he just fell on him.

03-10-2004, 08:13 AM	#20
NY_Skinsfan Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Albany, NY Age: 51 Posts: 838	I love hockey...i love to watch the face to face fighting. I don't have a problem with fighting in hockey because for the most part it is controlled with the refs right there waiting to break up the fight as soon as a knee touches the ice. What Bertuzzi did was definitely wrong and should be punished with a hefty suspension...But it is not the worst that I have seen. There have been players that have used their sticks as a weapon and slashed at the heads of other players..That is assualt with a deadly weapon. Yes it was a cheap shot, but Bertuzzi did not intentionally plan on driving his head in the ice. That was just a seriously unfortunate thing to happen. Compare it to McSorely when he was just skating by Brashear a couple years ago. Now that was more premeditated that what Bertuzzi did.

03-10-2004, 02:08 PM	#21
SittingBull Camp Scrub Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Fairfax< VA Posts: 89	He didnt just fall on him he used his forward momentum to push him down into the ice head first and used him to cushion his fall and still got some punches in after that. All this after a cheapshot from behind.

03-10-2004, 03:43 PM	#22
Defensewins Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,742	It looked to me like that the initial punch to the back of the head knocked the victim unconscious or helpless. His head seems to go limp after that initial sucker punch to the back of the head. So when he was rammed head first into the ICE he had no way to break the fall with his hands or arms.

03-10-2004, 07:34 PM	#24
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 51 Posts: 99,427	Here's a thought, why is fighting a part of hockey anyway? It could be argued that the fighting that is allowed in hockey leads to crap like this.

03-10-2004, 10:01 PM	#26
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I think what Matty is saying is hockey is an aggressive sport because fighting is allowed. If they disallowed fighting there wouldn't be as many grudges holding over, and if he knew he would get kicked out for X amount of games he wouldnt have done it. I really dont think the instigator expected to get the results he got. I think he feels bad for seriously hurting the guy and we can all do stupid things in the heat of the moment. Fighting is a big part of hockey, but I agree it can cause people to do things like this because violence is accepted in hockey. Not so much as this guy did but hey. I have a question, do you guys think Lawrence Taylor should have been banned from football after snapping theismans leg? Going at the knee's is a cheap shot in football!

03-10-2004, 11:09 PM	#28
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Being as how I can hardly stay upright on solid ground I've never played hockey so I'm shooting from the hip here. I'm just saying what I see from human nature. I heard this type of thing happened the other way around in a previous match up and the guy was going for a revenge cheap shot and the guy just totally went out cold. I know I've had more power than I knew when I was mad before. Basicly in your post you said that the guy felt remorse but must be punished for hurting another guy and ending his career, yet you defend LT who did the exact same thing. How is this a two way street? Had Wayne Gretzky been the aggitator would we be screaming for his head? I mean, I think just because of who this is he's getting hung. The announcers from the game footage didn't even seem that suprised at the hit when it first happened.

03-10-2004, 11:26 PM	#29
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	The difference between Taylor and Bertuzzi as I see it is that from what I remember Taylor was just making a tackle. I don't think it was intentional for him to undercut Theismann's legs and it wasn't any sort of retaliation. Let me put it this way, while Bertuzzi probably didn't mean to hurt Moore the way he did it was a deliberate cheap shot so it would be akin to if Theismann had scrambled out of bounds then LT drilled him helmet first in the back while he's still out of bounds. Had Bertuzzi caused the injury with a solid forecheck I think it would be a different story __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

03-10-2004, 11:47 PM	#30
SittingBull Camp Scrub Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Fairfax< VA Posts: 89	If Wayne Gretskey did cheap shots like that he wouldnt be held in such high self esteem as he is/was so he probably would be penalized harshly as well if he hit someone from behind and bulldogged him to the ground. The LT incident isnt a valid comparison because it was during a play. If Bertuzzi inflicted a neck injury during a body check or defending a rush towards the goal head on then the wolves wouldnt be out to get him like they are now. If LT chop blocked Theissman after the whistle was blown when he wasnt prepared and broke his leg he definitely would have been suspended indefinitely. Damn smoot you beat me to it =P

Violence in pro sports.

Locker Room Main Forum