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Debating with the enemy Discuss politics, current events, and other hot button issues here. |
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#1 |
Living Legend
Join Date: Aug 2008
Age: 58
Posts: 21,701
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Re: All things Middle East related
As I said, no terror tunnels were used for attacks. As for the rockets fired routinely, it's like a 50 lb weakling pounding on the bully's chest and saying that it's his fault that the bully smashed his face in. Hamas and the Palestinians could fire rockets forever and not cause 1/100th of the damage of the IDF.
Saying it's accountability, without holding Israel accountable for the death, destruction, and wholesale savagery of their inordinately extreme bombardments is, to me, mixed up. To be clear, I am not saying the Palestinians are without fault, but to somehow say 70 dead Israelis, all but 3 of whom are soldiers is justification for the killing of over 2000 and wounding over 8000 Palestinians is horrific logic. In terms of the ceasefire, if the rockets that Hamas fires were causing equivalent death and destruction to Israeli's then yes I would get that Israel had to respond to it, but they don't, and 60 rockets shot down and no-one hurt ought not give Israel license to go kill another 1-200 Palestinians. At somepoint, you have to tell Israel, put the attack guns down, we will supply your Iron dome, and help with defensive responses in any way possible, but there will be no peace if you continue the mass killings of Palestinian's. Those should be unacceptable. And if Israel can't accept that killing 900 innocent women,children, and seniors is an unacceptable response, than we ought to use our influence and ask them flat out, if we drop our support, how long will you survive. |
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#2 |
Living Legend
Join Date: Aug 2008
Age: 58
Posts: 21,701
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Re: All things Middle East related
Back to the bully example.
A tiny kid gets angry, and throws pencils at a top athlete in school. The athlete can: A) break the pencils, walk over and pound the kid into the ground, and leave him disfigured for life. B) break the pencil, get a drink and get help from others to get the kid to stop throwing pencils Yeah the kid shouldn't be throwing pencils, and yeah maybe one gets the athlete good in the ear, or worst case eye. But at no point does throwing ineffective pencils justify the athlete using his superior strength to mercilessly abuse the weaker kid. |
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#3 | |
Warpath Hall of Fame
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 35,035
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Re: All things Middle East related
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My pronouns: King/Your ruler He Gets Us |
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#4 | |
Playmaker
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,347
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Re: All things Middle East related
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My original point in all this is for the U.S. to take seriously, target, and eliminate terrorist groups who have directly declared war (jihad) on us. If we keep looking the other way and not taking the fight to them, we will have another 9/11, or worse.
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' — Jack Kent Cooke, 1996. |
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#5 | |
Living Legend
Join Date: Aug 2008
Age: 58
Posts: 21,701
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Re: All things Middle East related
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I don't get carte blanche approval of killing 2000+ people nearly half of whom are on the extremely innocent side (women although they aren't nearly as innocent as they claim! ![]() If you think beating the little kid to a pulp is gonna make him want to make peace with you, I think you are wrong, I think it's going to make other little kids want to gang up on you so that they can take you it. |
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#6 | |
Playmaker
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,347
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Re: All things Middle East related
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I don't want to beat the little kid (Palestinian people, because for the most part they want some concessions not Israel's elimination), but we've got to get after the other kids (Iran, Hamas, Mus BroHood, Turkey, etc.) that are giving the little kid the pencils (or grenades) and force them to stop, either diplomatically or by maybe some "accidents" to their military infrastructure.
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' — Jack Kent Cooke, 1996. |
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#7 |
Warpath Hall of Fame
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 35,035
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Re: All things Middle East related
Pentagon chief: ISIS 'beyond anything we have seen' - CNN.com
this is why ive grown to hate this administration. Hagel is trying to sell me on something Ive known about for about a year. And now instead of doing something about Isis initially, we've let them now come into Iraq and embed themselves in the region, gain iraqi support, more international support and prepare themselves for a fight. Hagel and Obama negligence will cost more civilian causalities and american soliders lives.
__________________
My pronouns: King/Your ruler He Gets Us |
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#8 | |
Living Legend
Join Date: Aug 2008
Age: 58
Posts: 21,701
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Re: All things Middle East related
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#9 | |
Warpath Hall of Fame
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 35,035
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Re: All things Middle East related
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So Mr. Hagel, why havent you seen this coming and effectively prepared for it? Another failure
__________________
My pronouns: King/Your ruler He Gets Us |
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#10 | |
Special Teams
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 446
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Re: All things Middle East related
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Key leaders on the left (Hagel, Obama, Kerry, Clinton, Feinstein) are all saying how caught-off-guard they were about this, meanwhile anyone who has been paying attention has seen republicans lambaste the policies for withdrawal for YEARS for exactly this reason. They didn't say which organization would do it, but many of them, along with higher-ups in the military, said this is exactly what would happen with a time-tabled withdrawal. We keep half-assing the whole thing. We need to decide if we want to continue to intervene in the ongoings of the middle east or not, and behave accordingly. This path we've been on for at least the last 50 years of funding/equiping one side to fight someone to only have power structures develop that are anti-US, or worse have the people we directly gave the money/weapons to turn around and uset hem against us, is not working. It's. not. working. |
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#11 |
Living Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: VA
Age: 42
Posts: 17,620
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Re: All things Middle East related
i wouldn't be lambasting libs while exonerating republicans over this. 10 years of unfunded war isn't sustainable either, and sanctioning torture isn't exactly a high water mark. plenty of blame to go around based on short term thinking and short sighted goals.
also, the spec ops team didn't fail, the intelligence did. the biggest failure we've had over there is the inability to create a good human intelligence network to provide accurate information. |
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#12 | |
Special Teams
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 446
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Re: All things Middle East related
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I'm just saying there's a whole lot of people in very important/high positions telling us they didn't see this coming when anyone who's been paying attention has watched certain people scream for years that this would happen. We also have a lot of normal people on a certain side of the aisle pretending this was unforeseeable. Those same people pretending to be so surprised were the ones years ago lambasting the republicans for their concerns. So I find it ridiculous they now shrug and pretend this was not foreseeable. Look, I wrote off those republican concerns at the time. I now fully admit they were right and I was naive/ignorant. But you wont catch me pretending people were not warning about this. They were. They were loud about it and they were chastised for it. Today it's clear they were correct all along. |
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#13 | |
Playmaker
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,347
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Re: All things Middle East related
waterboarding isn't torture, our Spec Ops go through it in their training....and that waterboarding of three high level terrorists directly attributed to stopping planned terrorist attacks and saved American lives.
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__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' — Jack Kent Cooke, 1996. |
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#14 |
Living Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: VA
Age: 42
Posts: 17,620
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Re: All things Middle East related
ukraine is obama's fault? if it were up to you, we'd be involved in yet another unfunded war, this time vs russians in crimea. that sounds... awesome.
and no, we already send spec ops teams and drones anywhere and everywhere doing "things". obama has increased the use and size of specs ops and drone programs a billion times over. if you don't know where your targets are, it doesn't get you the results you want, and it doesn't work against large movements or prevent invasions. it also makes plenty of people mad that your operating inside their borders without consent, and makes them feel like returning the favor. and i wasn't talking about waterboarding, i'm talking about CIA black sites doing things with our permission for our money on our behalf. and our lack of ME intel is clinton's fault? come on now. it must be nice to have such a simple world view where republicans are always right and military actions don't cost money or create blowback of any kind. |
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#15 | ||
Playmaker
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,347
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Re: All things Middle East related
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' — Jack Kent Cooke, 1996. |
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