Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

HOW is picking a DE when you already have a strong D-Line doing your homework? The Vikings have a mediocre offense, that would be right down terrible if it wasn't for Adrian Peterson. Their passing game is non-existent, they have a below average QB and no WRs whatsoever. I'm sorry but your CJ bashing is making you make no sense.

Oh and way to overlook the fact that Allen (according to what some have posted) had a DUI. So ur telling me a guy that talks wayy too much is worst than a guy that got busted for a DUI? Please.

Well, to be fair Udeze and possibly James are both out for the year. And they did sign Berrian this off-season.

However, the point about the DUI cannot be overlooked. And to think that's better than a guy whose worst offense is that he talks too much is stupid.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

That depends on how you look at it.

Moss had 98 receptions to CJ 93. Moss had 1,493 yrds to CJ's 1,440 yrds, Moss had 15.2 average yrds to CJ's 15.5 average yrds, Moss had 23 TD's to CJ's 8. Depending on how you spin it you could be right or one could say Moss was the only go to guy in clutch situations on that team and CJ had to split his time with Houshamizoli (sp-LOL).

What??? Didn't Welker have 110 catches?? Didn't Stallworth do his part? I can't count how many times Welker caught passes to keep drives alive in clutch situations. Plus the major difference is one caught 23 td's and has over 100 in his career and the other one doesn't.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I'm sorry you lost me with #1.....How is CJ not the #1 WR on his team? Go to NFL.COM and look up player stats for 2007 and tell me how a #3 ranked WR is not the top WR on his team? and then find the next available Bengal on that roster.....I'll help you out...it's T.J. Houshmandzadeh at #15. and for your info...CJ does compare to Randy Moss who was second on the list. If you look at all the stats they are comparable other then TD's...yes Moss had 23 and CJ had 8, but thats because according to you he had to play with some one who is better then him at #15.

Your #2 is stupid. Palmer is not elite! I think you mean his WR's make him look alot better then he really is. At this point I believe Campbell is better then Palmer.

#3 I regress to #2. Palmer is an idiot. Campbell is not. I'm sure CJ would not stunt Campbells growth and more then likely would help it grow.

#4 I finally agree with you.
#5 Your right. the team should not have thought that Moss who was not the #1 on the Jets was #1 status or that Randel El who was not the #1 on his team nor a #2 was worthy of #1 pay.

#6 I'm back to disagreeing with you. This just makes it harder for other teams to double up on one WR. It would probably force Moss to be more open which means Moss gets more balls, or Cooley, or Randel El.

Now before you go saying then why do we need CJ...its because teams would have to game plan for him and not single out Moss. Also CJ would get the ball when teams start rolling the coverage his way to eliminate him.

You gotta be kidding me. Carson Palmer is a better Qb than JC. I can't even believe you said that.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by KB24

The Vikings made it a point to do their homework and Allen has been very contrite about how he's made mistakes and is owning up to them. Chad is constantly talking about me, me, me, I want to get paid. At least Allen will fill a bigger need immediately. We're not a player away from a Super Bowl and Chad Johnson by himself isn't going to get us there.

Bottom line. With a new head coach on board, we need to build a corps of "young players" instead of trading away picks for players in their '30s who may or may not help us.

I wonder if the Vikings checked out this website while doing their 'diligent' research. Clearly this guy won't have any problems with alcohol in the future.

Plog - Jared Allen's: A Club Dedicated to the Man -- And to All Things 69

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

HOW is picking a DE when you already have a strong D-Line doing your homework? The Vikings have a mediocre offense, that would be right down terrible if it wasn't for Adrian Peterson. Their passing game is non-existent, they have a below average QB and no WRs whatsoever. I'm sorry but your CJ bashing is making you make no sense.

Oh and way to overlook the fact that Allen (according to what some have posted) had a DUI. So ur telling me a guy that talks wayy too much is worst than a guy that got busted for a DUI? Please.

I didn't "overlook" his DUI. If you go back and read what I posted, I talked about Allen's mistakes and how he admitted what he did was stupid. Since that time, he's been a model citizen and an excellent player.

I bash CJ because of his me-first attitude, an attitude that can disrupt the locker room. Plus, given the woes of the offensive line, having a play-making receiver like Chad isn't going to matter. We need to keep our picks and build a foundation, much like the Caps have done over the last few years. We don't have that foundation and Chad Johnson by himself won't make us a Super Bowl winner.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by KB24

Our offense wasn't staying on the field long enough because our aging, injury-prone offensive line with little in the way of proven back-ups wasn't getting the job done. We could have, both, Chad Johnson and Anquan Bolden at the wide out positions. It won't matter if the line can't open holes for Portis an Betts consistently, or keep Campbell upright long enough to get the ball to Moss and Company. Yes, the offense needs upgrades, but it has to start with the line.

Our offensive line improved by mid to late season. And the Redskins I believe fared well in giving up sacks...I think they were ranked 13th in sacks allowed (giving up around 29 sacks). What was constant last season was our offense's inability to score and put the game away was a big reason we lost those close games, and the fact that our WR receivers didn't score a TD well into the season should tell you something about our passing game. I mean look at how we lost the game in the playoffs, when we recover that kickoff that sailed over Burleson's head, we could not even score 3 points.

While I admit that gambling on our defense, which does need improvements, is a risk somehow they have managed to keep our team competitive two out of the past three years. Wheareas our offense has always held us back.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by KB24

I didn't "overlook" his DUI. If you go back and read what I posted, I talked about Allen's mistakes and how he admitted what he did was stupid. Since that time, he's been a model citizen and an excellent player.

I bash CJ because of his me-first attitude, an attitude that can disrupt the locker room. Plus, given the woes of the offensive line, having a play-making receiver like Chad isn't going to matter. We need to keep our picks and build a foundation, much like the Caps have done over the last few years. We don't have that foundation and Chad Johnson by himself won't make us a Super Bowl winner.

Well sorry about missing that, this thread was wayyy too long and I arrived late at the party. However, my whole issue with "building a foundation" is that if we wait to develop these young players that we are building upon, Portis, Santana, ARE and our entire offensive line will be too old to make us a contender. The team needs to figure out a way to move past the first round of the playoffs, and have a strong offense that will allow us to win those games were we end up losing by a few points. If we talk about building a foundation for the future, then we might us well give up any chances for the playoff and get into a rebuilding mode.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Our offensive line improved by mid to late season. And the Redskins I believe fared well in giving up sacks...I think they were ranked 13th in sacks allowed (giving up around 29 sacks). What was constant last season was our offense's inability to score and put the game away was a big reason we lost those close games, and the fact that our WR receivers didn't score a TD well into the season should tell you something about our passing game. I mean look at how we lost the game in the playoffs, when we recover that kickoff that sailed over Burleson's head, we could not even score 3 points.

While I admit that gambling on our defense, which does need improvements, is a risk somehow they have managed to keep our team competitive two out of the past three years. Wheareas our offense has always held us back.

That's a good point. But, we still don't have depth on that line. We only have one proven back-up and had to go the scrap heap for bodies. We can't go into the season "hoping" no one gets hurt. We need young, hungry players who will be ready to step in should one of the starters -- all of whom are in the '30s and, outside of Samuels, are recovering from some type of injury -- goes down. Until we do that, we could have Chad AND Bolden, and it won't matter.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Well sorry about missing that, this thread was wayyy too long and I arrived late at the party. However, my whole issue with "building a foundation" is that if we wait to develop these young players that we are building upon, Portis, Santana, ARE and our entire offensive line will be too old to make us a contender. The team needs to figure out a way to move past the first round of the playoffs, and have a strong offense that will allow us to win those games were we end up losing by a few points. If we talk about building a foundation for the future, then we might us well give up any chances for the playoff and get into a rebuilding mode.

But, haven't we been doing this very thing since 2000? Getting veteran players to "win now" instead of waiting "to develop these young players that we are building upon?" That very strategy you mentioned has netted us a grand total of one playoff win during that time. I want to see the Redskins win just as much as you do. But, it's obvious the way they've been trying to do it just isn't working. Maybe it's time to start from scratch and build for the future. Remember, we have a new -- not to mention first-time -- head coach and a young quarterback who has to learn yet another offensive system. Chances are, there are going to be growing pains and it will take a couple of years to really learn this system. Wouldn't it be smarter to build for the future when the system can be executed to the point where the Redskins offense will be a bigger threat?

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Angry

I was going to post something, but the link didn't work. Rather than trying to fix the whole thing you see this.

It's not showing up on my screen. What is it?

[SBXVII]

I guess it goes back to how you want to spin it....Welker was #11 on the list. with only 1,175 yrds total. He averaged only 10.5 yrds per catch. Not as good as CJ. and he had the same # of TD's.

Your right about Palmer I should not have said that he had 100 more att, and 100 more comp. but his QB rating is only 60.4% and Campbells is 60%. I'm trying to put a better spin on it but I can't. He was ranked #5 and Campbell was ranked #16 Sorry.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

Thank God that the Bengals can save us from ourselves.

How dopey is it to come this far with all your picks just to hand them out at the last second. So much for draft disicipline.

This annoys me and doesn't bode well for who they think is going to be available with the 21st pick in the draft. One week before the draft they want to heave their draft stratedy out the window, I'm annoyed.

That is the perfect comment!

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by KB24

I didn't "overlook" his DUI. If you go back and read what I posted, I talked about Allen's mistakes and how he admitted what he did was stupid. Since that time, he's been a model citizen and an excellent player.

And then Allen did it again. It's been less than a year, so it's hard to say his character is "repaired" just because he said sorry. I think Pacman Jones said he was sorry, too.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

And then Allen did it again. It's been less than a year, so it's hard to say his character is "repaired" just because he said sorry. I think Pacman Jones said he was sorry, too.

Pacman has NEVER taken responsibility for his actions. Maybe the Allen example wasn't the best one to use. My point is, if we really want to get rid of draft picks the way we are, we need to focus on the lines first -- a couple of our most glaring weaknesses -- then the skill positions. As I said before, having Chad won't matter if we can't keep Campbell upright or rush the passer consistently.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

And then Allen did it again. It's been less than a year, so it's hard to say his character is "repaired" just because he said sorry. I think Pacman Jones said he was sorry, too.

Yeah but in all fairness, when Pacman said it, his acting was worse than his wrestling career.