When is Enough ,Enough?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Interaction with police will lead to your death. 60 million interactions a year across this country.

Yeah but when it does typically it's a black man involved. And really isn't that the big picture issue we're talking about? A long established history of racial inequality and the police overstepping time and time again when it comes to minorities.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I was just told Trump should have locked down the country in January, that would have been ok somehow. And now he is calling in support to cities where violence is hurting communities, businesses, citizens, and police...now he is a dictator? The narratives don’t make any sense.

We understand people and police were attacked in multiple cities last night? We understand that the once peaceful protest have been Co-opted by alt left violent groups? We do understand that right? We all agree this isn’t right?

1. Trump doesn't take significant action, he is not a leader
2. Trump does take significant action, he is a dictator

Either way he loses and orange man bad.

And ignore all violence and looting that is completely hijacking the death of Mr. Floyd and the issue of police brutality that does need to be addressed. Ignore that people's property is being destroyed and people themselves are being hurt. Ignore that this is leading to more deaths. Ignore that significant chunks of towns are being destroyed. Ignore that it appears agitators are being bussed into places to inflame tensions and riots. A bunch of Officer Barbradys.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Protesters several weeks ago, it was the same whining complaints. Now we see the obvious reversal of the narrative. You and the media can’t both ways.

Lethally flawed, absolutely not. This is a terrible murder by a dirty cop no question...It’s simply not the norm. Crime data doesn’t support it. This is exactly what the media does, they will take this and weave it into a narrative which is not based in fact...it’s emotional, tragic situation where we can get better, but it’s not the norm.

Worrying about dollars and worrying about peoples lives are not the same. You see a reversal of narrative I see a sticking to the narrative; public health and life are more important.

In terms of data I'm sorry it is just not true here is some peer reviewed papers for you to help you better understand what is going on:

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/lasr.12366

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/do...PH.2018.304559

There is a significant gap in training in police forces. Especially when it comes to mental health and social emotional disabilities both of which impact African Americans at a higher rate. Going further African Americans males receive longer sentences than white males for the same crime (https://www.ussc.gov/research/resear...ces-sentencing) This leads to likely increases in recidivism leading to increased police interactions.

For the record I am not anti-police as with any profession that vast majority are honest and hardworking people. That does not mean that they handle situations appropriately. We have as a society decided not to fund and properly train our police compared to other developed countries.

[Buffalo Bob]

Originally Posted by MTK

You really want to die on this hill that the President threatening military force against our own people is ok? Tear gassing citizens on his way to an asinine photo op is ok?

So you are just willing to wait till the people who have become violent and destroying property and looting run out of energy? These incidents seem to be escalating. Remember the 1992 Los Angeles riots? The mass destruction didn't take place till the cops that beat Rodney King were acquitted. Here we have a cop in jail charged with murder, yet same crap as with the Rodney King incident.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by MTK

Yeah but when it does typically it's a black man involved. And really isn't that the big picture issue we're talking about? A long established history of racial inequality and the police overstepping time and time again when it comes to minorities.

There is a prior history and it’s been acknowledged by everyone. Systematic changes have been made...improvements everywhere. Are there areas we can improve? absolutely. Better training, oversight and a weeding out of bad cops....but we can’t loose our heads and that’s what happening in the last 36 hours. The data shows 9 black unarmed killed last year by police...I don’t know the stories. 19 white unarmed.

The looting and rioting is unacceptable period. The killing of George Floyd is unacceptable period. The media spin is helping fuel this as usual, the dishonesty is offensive.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

1. Trump doesn't take significant action, he is not a leader
2. Trump does take significant action, he is a dictator

Either way he loses and orange man bad.

And ignore all violence and looting that is completely hijacking the death of Mr. Floyd and the issue of police brutality that does need to be addressed. Ignore that people's property is being destroyed and people themselves are being hurt. Ignore that this is leading to more deaths. Ignore that significant chunks of towns are being destroyed. Ignore that it appears agitators are being bussed into places to inflame tensions and riots. A bunch of Officer Barbradys.

Nobody is ignoring it. 15 states have already called up national guards and others such as DC which have small national guards have asked neighboring states for guard assistance last I checked so no one is ignoring the looters. You are correct there are people that will look at trump and never agree with him. They were never going to vote for him anyway so no harm no foul. Going out and saying the states need to do a better job of establishing order IMO is a good thing for him. It is going to appeal to a large portion of the population that believes when you loosen the reigns crime and a lack of discipline increases. Using gas and flash grenades to clear peaceful protesters is what I have a problem with.

[Buffalo Bob]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

Using gas and flash grenades to clear peaceful protesters is what I have a problem with.

What do you propose, fire hoses and water cannons? Enough is enough, all the incidents of looting and mass destruction started as "peaceful protests". I am pretty sure the gas and grenades game out well after crowds were told to disperse and they failed to do so.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by Buffalo Bob

What do you propose, fire hoses and water cannons? Enough is enough, all the incidents of looting and mass destruction started as "peaceful protests". I am pretty sure the gas and grenades game out well after crowds were told to disperse and they failed to do so.

How about he make his comments from the oval office?

[MTK]

Just a crazy question but why is tear gas forbidden to use in war but ok to use on civilians?

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

Worrying about dollars and worrying about peoples lives are not the same. You see a reversal of narrative I see a sticking to the narrative; public health and life are more important.

In terms of data I'm sorry it is just not true here is some peer reviewed papers for you to help you better understand what is going on:

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/lasr.12366

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/do...PH.2018.304559

There is a significant gap in training in police forces. Especially when it comes to mental health and social emotional disabilities both of which impact African Americans at a higher rate. Going further African Americans males receive longer sentences than white males for the same crime (https://www.ussc.gov/research/resear...ces-sentencing) This leads to likely increases in recidivism leading to increased police interactions.

For the record I am not anti-police as with any profession that vast majority are honest and hardworking people. That does not mean that they handle situations appropriately. We have as a society decided not to fund and properly train our police compared to other developed countries.

Thanks I’ll look through it. A couple things off the bat strike me as kinda off, especially if you are gonna dive into mental health and emotional issues...at the same time blame police And the justice system because they are not equipped. Look at root cause of why there is these issues. It’s like taking kids to school and acting like they are the baby sitter...the expectation they should need to deal with it is incorrect. Plus simply saying black people have more of these issues...not sure on that.

Recidivism rates is always a hot topic because that’s the key to curbing...but I’ll look at what you sent.

As someone who worked in juvenile justice, I did see emotional issues and resources were abundant to address these on many levels, a lot of time people don’t use them when there were free. You know what the driver is for juvenile crime and justice? Bad fucking parents period. I worked in a mostly white rural county and I worked in a major diverse city. Fact check: true. Substance abuse and mental issue distance second and third.

I agree about training always...but with the policing culture there needs to be active conversations about identifying bad police. Whistle blower protection through chain of command, review of all injuries suspects receive in police contact, etc

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by MTK

Just a crazy question but why is tear gas forbidden to use in war but ok to use on civilians?

Because effective and non lethal? We can’t blow bubbles on them MTK.

[Buffalo Bob]

Originally Posted by MTK

Yeah but when it does typically it's a black man involved. And really isn't that the big picture issue we're talking about? A long established history of racial inequality and the police overstepping time and time again when it comes to minorities.

More whites are killed by police than black people, it just never gets the media coverage, and no one riots over it. Speaking of racial inequality of minorities, ever look at crime statistics for Asians? Ever look at the rate they get killed by police? They are better behaved than the average white person, and less likely on a percentage basis to get killed by a cop than a white person.

Asians have been victims of racism in this country for decades all the way back to Chinese railroad workers working in miserable conditions for next to nothing pay as recent immigrants after the civil war. Didn't we round up all the Japanese and put them in internment camps during WWII?

How have Asians been able to over come obstacles that other minorities that were discriminated against could not? I think my answer would be their culture. I worked at a company that had lots of Asian workers. They spoke of disciplined up bringing and strong family values. If an Asian boy brought home bad grades or hung out with the wrong crowd you could bet he would be in for a rough time from his parents. I often heard people make fun of Asians at that job in the early 90's. There was one rather large guy who couldn't stop referring to them as dog eaters sometimes right to their face. He unfortunately did not work under me so I could not send him to the unemployment line. His boss just thought his behavior was funny.

[MTK]

Between 2013 and 2019, police in the United States killed 7,666 people, according to data compiled by Mapping Police Violence, a research and advocacy group. On May 25, 2020 at 9:25pm (02:25 GMT, May 26), George Floyd, a 46-year-old resident of Minnesota, became yet another victim of police brutality as he was killed in police custody while unarmed. Floyd's death has prompted thousands of protesters to march in cities around the country demanding justice and an end to police violence.

The number of police killings in the US disproportionately affects African Americans. Despite only making up 13 percent of the US population, Black Americans are two-and-a-half times as likely as white Americans to be killed by the police.

Unsurprisingly, the three largest states - California, Texas and Florida - have the highest total number of killings of Black people by police officers. Once these figures are adjusted for the population size and demographics, in nearly every state, African Americans face a significantly higher risk of being killed by police officers than white Americans.

In Utah, the African Americans comprise just 1.06 percent of the population but they accounted for 10 percent of police killings over the past seven years - a disproportional rate of 9.21 times. In Minnesota, Black Americans are nearly four times as likely to be killed by law enforcement, with Black victims comprising 20 percent of those killed, despite comprising only 5 percent of the overall population.

Mapping US police killings of Black Americans

[Buffalo Bob]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

As someone who worked in juvenile justice, I did see emotional issues and resources were abundant to address these on many levels, a lot of time people don’t use them when there were free. You know what the driver is for juvenile crime and justice? Bad fucking parents period. I worked in a mostly white rural county and I worked in a major diverse city. Fact check: true. Substance abuse and mental issue distance second and third.

I suppose I will disagree to an extent on the bad parents. My nephew is a sociopath for which there is no cure, he was given all kinds of drugs and all forms of parenting tried. At the age of 12 he went from an A student to the world's biggest loser. By the time he was 16 he had been in and out of juvenile hall 9 times. All kinds of parenting techniques were tried. His parents divorced when he was 10. Between the ages of 16 and 18 he lived with mom, dad, grandma, and uncle Bob. Now at the age of 25, he lives in prison. After he left my place when he was 18 a few months later he was thrown in jail for attempted strangulation of his girlfriend, he only got 2-5 years but he obviously parlayed that into a longer sentence. He is up for parole this October with a release date of 2023. I hope he keeps screwing up in prison the world is not safe with him breathing free air. He will eventually kill someone. Nothing is ever his fault and he actually bragged about the crimes he committed as a juvenile. He left here on very bad terms I only find updates on him from Goggling.

I have also seen quite a few loser kids come from good parents whose other siblings turned out just fine.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by MTK

Between 2013 and 2019, police in the United States killed 7,666 people, according to data compiled by Mapping Police Violence, a research and advocacy group. On May 25, 2020 at 9:25pm (02:25 GMT, May 26), George Floyd, a 46-year-old resident of Minnesota, became yet another victim of police brutality as he was killed in police custody while unarmed. Floyd's death has prompted thousands of protesters to march in cities around the country demanding justice and an end to police violence.

The number of police killings in the US disproportionately affects African Americans. Despite only making up 13 percent of the US population, Black Americans are two-and-a-half times as likely as white Americans to be killed by the police.

Unsurprisingly, the three largest states - California, Texas and Florida - have the highest total number of killings of Black people by police officers. Once these figures are adjusted for the population size and demographics, in nearly every state, African Americans face a significantly higher risk of being killed by police officers than white Americans.

In Utah, the African Americans comprise just 1.06 percent of the population but they accounted for 10 percent of police killings over the past seven years - a disproportional rate of 9.21 times. In Minnesota, Black Americans are nearly four times as likely to be killed by law enforcement, with Black victims comprising 20 percent of those killed, despite comprising only 5 percent of the overall population.

Mapping US police killings of Black Americans

This is such a bad article on so many levels and speaks to manipulate stats for a narrative. Never mind the resource is from an anti police group.