Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)

illdefined · 09-13-2005, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

So Ramsey gets one, two, three, (and so on) chances but Brunell gets just one?

three what? drives?? i hope you don't mean seasons, because if Brunell played under Spurrier he would be retired and in the booth next to Aikman right now.

kingerock · 09-13-2005, 01:45 AM

All I know is as much as I like Ramsey, if we win on Monday, it's all for moot. Just like anyone here, Gibbs and the Skins want to win. If that means Brunell, Ramsey, Rypien, Williams, Thiesman... you get the picture.

I can understand if Ramsey is upset, I probably would be too, but I am sure he see's his stats, his INTs vs TDs, the score at the end of Bears game, his win loss record, and understands.

Gmanc711 · 09-13-2005, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

So Ramsey gets one, two, three, (and so on) chances but Brunell gets just one?

Tafkas, I hope you know me (via online) well enough not to take this personally....but you have to be kididng me. Brunell gets just one chance??? BRUNELL GETS JUST ONE CHANCE???? He had 9 horrific games last season, each one, Redskins fans everywhere wanted to put rail road spikes through their eyes it was so bad. Common, Brunell has has 10x the chances Ramsey has here in DC.

SUNRA · 09-13-2005, 01:51 AM

By the way, we're leading in our division in week one. Philly just lost. 14-10. Lets go Skins its our year.

SmootSmack · 09-13-2005, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

He owes him exactly what he provided Brunell with. He didnt have to make him the starter, right. He did though. So why did he owe Brunell 9 weeks to f*ck things up, and he only gave Ramsey a quarter in which he didnt even play bad?

Bottom line, I think Gibbs is just looking for reasons to let Brunell play so that he can hopefully turn things around, and make Gibbs look good for picking him up in the first place.

The only things Joe Gibbs needs to worry about is winning football games. I dont care if he puts Osama Bin Laden behind center, he should be winning football games. I just dont understand why everyone thinks Mark Brunell was so good, or is going to be any better. He dosent look THAT good. He only threw for 70 yards yesterday. At this point, neither of these guys is the long term awnser, but for the love of god, the kid should have had more than 20 mintues before he got pulled.

But that's the thing. Gibbs was brought in to restore the team to glory. It's not unlike when a new team owner buys a struggling team. And the owner says "I want my staff here" So he brings in the general manager he wants. The GM then brings in the coach he wants. The coach brings in his QB. There has to be a reason that when presented with his roster when he agreed to coach the team again Gibbs decided to go after another QB, and he was never obliged to hold onto Ramsey. Was he?

I don't know. I just don't get why every one thinks Brunell starting is a sign of the apocalypse

Drift Reality · 09-13-2005, 01:51 AM

Okay guys, I've had enough debate for one night. Before I crash out though, I want to leave you with a great read from 1990 - before the 'Skins won the Super Bowl in '91.

I just thought it interesting in light of the current situation.

For Gibbs, Great QB Hasn't Come to Pass by Thomas Boswell

Maybe it's Joe Gibbs's curse or his legacy to be remembered as the best NFL coach who never had a great quarterback.

Play name association and it only requires a blink to hook names such as Tom Landry, Bud Grant, Bill Walsh, Chuck Noll, Vince Lombardi and Paul Brown with the legends who threw the ball for them: Roger Staubach, Fran Tarkenton, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, Bart Starr and Otto Graham. Weeb Ewbank reached Canton courtesy of Johnny Unitas and Joe Namath. Don Shula has had Unitas, Bob Griese and Dan Marino.

Gibbs has had Joe Theismann. And, though he was pretty spry for a couple of years, that's just not the same. And, of course, Doug Williams had his moments of glory, especially when he helped the Redskins crush Denver in the Super Bowl in 1988 and won the MVP award.

It's probably psychologically impossible for an NFL coach, especially one who works 110 of the 168 hours in a week, to wake up on his office cot in the morning and say to himself, "At least 10 teams in this league have a better quarterback than any of mine will ever be."

First, Gibbs became infatuated with Jay Schroeder. Then Mark Rypien. Then Stan Humphries. And now it's Cary Conklin. Every year since Joe Theismann's leg was broken, Gibbs has become smitten with a big, strong, new, young quarterback. They're nearly identical long shot mid-round draft choices.

Some are tough guys. Some throw the ball through a wall. Some have quick feet. Some are smart. Some are leaders. But none of them is "All of the above."

What makes the irony doubly rich, and doubly annoying to Gibbs, is that he made his reputation as an offensive thinker and as a teacher of passers, especially Dan Fouts. With the Redskins, Gibbs has assembled and maintained The Hogs. He's created Riggo Drills and H-backs. He's elevated men-in-motion and formation shifts to an art form. He's spotted enough superior receivers for a Fun Bunch and a Posse.

It's as though Gibbs has spent a decade assembling all the parts of a Frankenstein Monster but has never been able to throw the switch and give it life. What would this man do if he ever had a Hall of Fame quarterback? His '83 team already holds the NFL scoring record of 541 points.

Because Gibbs's desire for a great passer is so deep, his young apprentices operate under a severe burden. Their opportunity is enormous; after all, even Williams in the latter stages of his career won a Super Bowl with Gibbs. But Gibbs's expectation for improvement and performance are high too. With Gibbs, when you stop getting better, you start disappearing.

Schroeder left town with bad feelings between he and Gibbs. Now, the whole town knows that Humphries has lost favor with the coach and may be traded in the next month. At the moment, Conklin, on "injured reserve" for four weeks with a "knee" injury, is the object of Gibbs's fantasies. Meanwhile, Rypien, the precariously positioned starter, is the man on the hot seat who'd better produce.

"I like Cary Conklin very much," said Gibbs yesterday. "He has done nothing but impress me. He has a very bright future. He has a lot of tools. Everything I've seen from Cary, I like. He had a great camp. I told him today how I felt about him. I think that's what he wanted to hear."

Within the last five years, you could have substituted the names Schroeder, Rypien and Humphries for Conklin in almost identical Gibbs bouquets.

As for Rypien, who spent two years on injured reserve awaiting Gibbs's tap on the shoulder, this is clearly his season to be spectacular or prepare to be eased out of the picture. "Hopefully, this is Rip's year to be healthy and take off," said Gibbs yesterday. "Mark has had [four] years to get ready. Now's the time to step up . . . You coach 'em, surround 'em with the absolute best [players] you can. But they need to seize the moment. It's their responsibility to step up and take it."

Because the Redskins, in Gibbs's tenure, have never been a bad team, the club has never been in position to draft a potential franchise quarterback such as Troy Aikman or Jeff George. As for trades, dream on. Nobody deals a premier quarterback for any price.

"I think our fans will get jacked up and support Mark, knowing he's our number one quarterback," said Gibbs. "But will he be booed [sometimes]? He'll have to deal with that. In Washington, it's when he wins a Super Bowl that everybody will think he's done what he should."

That's not just an astronomical standard set by fickle fans or a demanding owner. That's Gibbs's standard too. Since he was hired in 1981, only San Francisco has had a better record than Washington's 113-55.

The Redskins are also second-best in the NFL over the last 10 years in home record (.747), road record (.600), interconference record and record in the season's final month (.775). Nobody has as good a playoff winning percentage.

Now, the Redskins begin what has been an annual agony of quarterback analysis and maturation. What Schroeder and, apparently, Humphries have been deemed incapable of doing, Rypien will be given one more chance to create. With Conklin looking over his shoulder.

Sometimes, an entire town or team can rally around an old or limited quarterback. It's happened with Billy Kilmer and Williams in Washington and with Joe Kapp and Jim Plunkett elsewhere. However, such a generous fate is unlikely to await any young Redskins quarterback. In part because of Gibbs's dreams of greatness, a different and more demanding tone has set around the Redskins.

"In the NFL, it's like familiarity breeds contempt," said Gibbs. "The fans boo the number one guy and root for number two."

Joe Gibbs isn't an antsy fan. But when it comes to quarterbacks, he has to fight the temptation to act like one. So far, especially in the case of Rypien, Gibbs has shown remarkable patience. Maybe that's because he knows better than anyone else that he has little choice. He has been, and will probably long remain, the Hall of Fame coach with no Hall of Fame quarterback.

12thMan · 09-13-2005, 01:51 AM

[QUOTE=kingerock]All I know is as much as I like Ramsey, if we win on Monday, it's all for moot. Just like anyone here, Gibbs and the Skins want to win./QUOTE]

Dude...and that's bottom f@#kin line.

jdlea · 09-13-2005, 01:52 AM

I don't know why everyone is so optimistic about the 2nd Brunell season as the starter.

Drift Reality · 09-13-2005, 01:55 AM

I just thought the article was interesting in the concept that Gibbs has historically been neurotic about his quarterbacks but has always won nevertheless. I think he actually likes to pit them against one another to see who is the most mentally strong.

To be honest, Ramsey constantly begging to be traded everytime he is demoted isn't the way you impress Gibbs.

If Ramsey wanted to impress Gibbs, he would keep his mouth shut, focus on cutting down on turnovers and keep working hard until his next opportunity comes.

12thMan · 09-13-2005, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

This is actually a really good point I thought of earlier this evening. Ramsey has actually shown more than either of the guys taken before him.

For some reason, Gibbs' just hasn't been sold on him. I think it is a very instinctive thing and for whatever reason, Gibbs' doesn't think this is his guy.

On the bright side, I think there has to be at least one team out there with a GM who thinks Ramsey can be the man, so hopefully we can deal him after this season for something.

yeah, that is as good point, however, neither of those organizations have the winning history and the great expectation like we do here in Washington. So while the point is very legitimate, I do think, in the context of our franchise history (and trust me I know this sounds corny) it's really a different deal.

None of those franchises have any Superbowls to show for prior successes.

SUNRA · 09-13-2005, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

Tafkas, I hope you know me (via online) well enough not to take this personally....but you have to be kididng me. Brunell gets just one chance??? BRUNELL GETS JUST ONE CHANCE???? He had 9 horrific games last season, each one, Redskins fans everywhere wanted to put rail road spikes through their eyes it was so bad. Common, Brunell has has 10x the chances Ramsey has here in DC.

Not to make any excuses for Brunell, but it was clear he had a problem with his hamstring last season. The sports announcer mentioned it in the Steelers game. Brunell did not want to dissappoint Gibbs so he played. Unfortunately to our detriment. This year, his passes almost knocked Antonio Brown down in the last preseason game. He has the velocity on the ball that he is known for.

illdefined · 09-13-2005, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

Tafkas, I hope you know me (via online) well enough not to take this personally....but you have to be kididng me. Brunell gets just one chance??? BRUNELL GETS JUST ONE CHANCE???? He had 9 horrific games last season, each one, Redskins fans everywhere wanted to put rail road spikes through their eyes it was so bad. Common, Brunell has has 10x the chances Ramsey has here in DC.

don't bother Gmanc. the Brunell lovers apparently didn't watch last season, they refuse to talk about it.

12thMan · 09-13-2005, 01:57 AM

....and it wasn't just his hamstring, he had a bad elbow as well.

SmootSmack · 09-13-2005, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

Tafkas, I hope you know me (via online) well enough not to take this personally....but you have to be kididng me. Brunell gets just one chance??? BRUNELL GETS JUST ONE CHANCE???? He had 9 horrific games last season, each one, Redskins fans everywhere wanted to put rail road spikes through their eyes it was so bad. Common, Brunell has has 10x the chances Ramsey has here in DC.

Ramsey plays under Spurrier, and it's "well poor guy had to play under Spurrier with no pass protection." Then he gets another chance last season. And he does fairly well but still makes dumb mistakes (see the INT in the endzone against the Eagles). Nonetheless, he's named the starter going into this training camp. And again, he shows flashes but makes dumb mistakes (see basically the same INT in the endzone against Carolina, was it Carolina?)

I know Brunell played poorly last season, I'm not denying what happened. But I'm convinced he wasn't entirely to blame for it. And I count that as one chance basically because nothing really changed during that time-same coach, same receivers, same offensive gameplan. Plus considering the career he's had doesn't he deserve another chance?

By the way, on a positive note (which are remarkably few and far between after a win) I really liked what I saw from Moss yesterday. He gets great separation and runs excellent routes. Not to mention steady hands and explosive speed. He's going to be a huge help to whoever is taking the snap from center.

VishsSkins · 09-13-2005, 02:01 AM

Loved reading that article of the old days. Gibbs will get it done this time around too.

09-13-2005, 01:45 AM	#197
kingerock Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Killeen, TX Age: 48 Posts: 360	Re: Ramsey wants to be traded All I know is as much as I like Ramsey, if we win on Monday, it's all for moot. Just like anyone here, Gibbs and the Skins want to win. If that means Brunell, Ramsey, Rypien, Williams, Thiesman... you get the picture. I can understand if Ramsey is upset, I probably would be too, but I am sure he see's his stats, his INTs vs TDs, the score at the end of Bears game, his win loss record, and understands. __________________ Redskins fan lost in Texas for 20 years. Need a ride to D.C.

09-13-2005, 01:51 AM	#199
SUNRA The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,680	Re: Ramsey wants to be traded By the way, we're leading in our division in week one. Philly just lost. 14-10. Lets go Skins its our year. __________________ Redskins Member since 1970

09-13-2005, 01:51 AM	#201
Drift Reality Impact Rookie Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 506	Re: Ramsey wants to be traded Okay guys, I've had enough debate for one night. Before I crash out though, I want to leave you with a great read from 1990 - before the 'Skins won the Super Bowl in '91. I just thought it interesting in light of the current situation. For Gibbs, Great QB Hasn't Come to Pass by Thomas Boswell Maybe it's Joe Gibbs's curse or his legacy to be remembered as the best NFL coach who never had a great quarterback. Play name association and it only requires a blink to hook names such as Tom Landry, Bud Grant, Bill Walsh, Chuck Noll, Vince Lombardi and Paul Brown with the legends who threw the ball for them: Roger Staubach, Fran Tarkenton, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, Bart Starr and Otto Graham. Weeb Ewbank reached Canton courtesy of Johnny Unitas and Joe Namath. Don Shula has had Unitas, Bob Griese and Dan Marino. Gibbs has had Joe Theismann. And, though he was pretty spry for a couple of years, that's just not the same. And, of course, Doug Williams had his moments of glory, especially when he helped the Redskins crush Denver in the Super Bowl in 1988 and won the MVP award. It's probably psychologically impossible for an NFL coach, especially one who works 110 of the 168 hours in a week, to wake up on his office cot in the morning and say to himself, "At least 10 teams in this league have a better quarterback than any of mine will ever be." First, Gibbs became infatuated with Jay Schroeder. Then Mark Rypien. Then Stan Humphries. And now it's Cary Conklin. Every year since Joe Theismann's leg was broken, Gibbs has become smitten with a big, strong, new, young quarterback. They're nearly identical long shot mid-round draft choices. Some are tough guys. Some throw the ball through a wall. Some have quick feet. Some are smart. Some are leaders. But none of them is "All of the above." What makes the irony doubly rich, and doubly annoying to Gibbs, is that he made his reputation as an offensive thinker and as a teacher of passers, especially Dan Fouts. With the Redskins, Gibbs has assembled and maintained The Hogs. He's created Riggo Drills and H-backs. He's elevated men-in-motion and formation shifts to an art form. He's spotted enough superior receivers for a Fun Bunch and a Posse. It's as though Gibbs has spent a decade assembling all the parts of a Frankenstein Monster but has never been able to throw the switch and give it life. What would this man do if he ever had a Hall of Fame quarterback? His '83 team already holds the NFL scoring record of 541 points. Because Gibbs's desire for a great passer is so deep, his young apprentices operate under a severe burden. Their opportunity is enormous; after all, even Williams in the latter stages of his career won a Super Bowl with Gibbs. But Gibbs's expectation for improvement and performance are high too. With Gibbs, when you stop getting better, you start disappearing. Schroeder left town with bad feelings between he and Gibbs. Now, the whole town knows that Humphries has lost favor with the coach and may be traded in the next month. At the moment, Conklin, on "injured reserve" for four weeks with a "knee" injury, is the object of Gibbs's fantasies. Meanwhile, Rypien, the precariously positioned starter, is the man on the hot seat who'd better produce. "I like Cary Conklin very much," said Gibbs yesterday. "He has done nothing but impress me. He has a very bright future. He has a lot of tools. Everything I've seen from Cary, I like. He had a great camp. I told him today how I felt about him. I think that's what he wanted to hear." Within the last five years, you could have substituted the names Schroeder, Rypien and Humphries for Conklin in almost identical Gibbs bouquets. As for Rypien, who spent two years on injured reserve awaiting Gibbs's tap on the shoulder, this is clearly his season to be spectacular or prepare to be eased out of the picture. "Hopefully, this is Rip's year to be healthy and take off," said Gibbs yesterday. "Mark has had [four] years to get ready. Now's the time to step up . . . You coach 'em, surround 'em with the absolute best [players] you can. But they need to seize the moment. It's their responsibility to step up and take it." Because the Redskins, in Gibbs's tenure, have never been a bad team, the club has never been in position to draft a potential franchise quarterback such as Troy Aikman or Jeff George. As for trades, dream on. Nobody deals a premier quarterback for any price. "I think our fans will get jacked up and support Mark, knowing he's our number one quarterback," said Gibbs. "But will he be booed [sometimes]? He'll have to deal with that. In Washington, it's when he wins a Super Bowl that everybody will think he's done what he should." That's not just an astronomical standard set by fickle fans or a demanding owner. That's Gibbs's standard too. Since he was hired in 1981, only San Francisco has had a better record than Washington's 113-55. The Redskins are also second-best in the NFL over the last 10 years in home record (.747), road record (.600), interconference record and record in the season's final month (.775). Nobody has as good a playoff winning percentage. Now, the Redskins begin what has been an annual agony of quarterback analysis and maturation. What Schroeder and, apparently, Humphries have been deemed incapable of doing, Rypien will be given one more chance to create. With Conklin looking over his shoulder. Sometimes, an entire town or team can rally around an old or limited quarterback. It's happened with Billy Kilmer and Williams in Washington and with Joe Kapp and Jim Plunkett elsewhere. However, such a generous fate is unlikely to await any young Redskins quarterback. In part because of Gibbs's dreams of greatness, a different and more demanding tone has set around the Redskins. "In the NFL, it's like familiarity breeds contempt," said Gibbs. "The fans boo the number one guy and root for number two." Joe Gibbs isn't an antsy fan. But when it comes to quarterbacks, he has to fight the temptation to act like one. So far, especially in the case of Rypien, Gibbs has shown remarkable patience. Maybe that's because he knows better than anyone else that he has little choice. He has been, and will probably long remain, the Hall of Fame coach with no Hall of Fame quarterback. __________________ Drift Reality DC City Blog New Influencer

09-13-2005, 01:51 AM	#202
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,460	Re: Ramsey wants to be traded [QUOTE=kingerock]All I know is as much as I like Ramsey, if we win on Monday, it's all for moot. Just like anyone here, Gibbs and the Skins want to win./QUOTE] Dude...and that's bottom f@#kin line.

09-13-2005, 01:52 AM	#203
jdlea Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 40 Posts: 3,109	Re: Ramsey wants to be traded I don't know why everyone is so optimistic about the 2nd Brunell season as the starter.

09-13-2005, 01:55 AM	#204
Drift Reality Impact Rookie Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 506	Re: Ramsey wants to be traded I just thought the article was interesting in the concept that Gibbs has historically been neurotic about his quarterbacks but has always won nevertheless. I think he actually likes to pit them against one another to see who is the most mentally strong. To be honest, Ramsey constantly begging to be traded everytime he is demoted isn't the way you impress Gibbs. If Ramsey wanted to impress Gibbs, he would keep his mouth shut, focus on cutting down on turnovers and keep working hard until his next opportunity comes. __________________ Drift Reality DC City Blog New Influencer

09-13-2005, 01:57 AM	#208
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,460	Re: Ramsey wants to be traded ....and it wasn't just his hamstring, he had a bad elbow as well.

09-13-2005, 02:01 AM	#210
VishsSkins Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2005 Age: 36 Posts: 173	Re: Ramsey wants to be traded Loved reading that article of the old days. Gibbs will get it done this time around too.

Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)

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