Parkland Shooting

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

https://abcnews.go.com/US/12-major-u...ry?id=81466453

It's just crazy': 12 major cities hit all-time homicide records

Nobody’s getting arrested anymore," Boyce said. "People are getting picked up for gun possession and they're just let out over and over again."


Imagine wanting more gun control but being in favor releasing violent offenders and not prosecuting folks caught with illegal guns.

Defund the police was a failure as well.

Wanting only gun control when a mass shooting occurs and ignoring the gun violence historical highs in the past two years…hypocritical Democrats.

Here catch up with the mass shooting archive, links the stories with info

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/mass-shooting

Also all I hear is bitching, no solutions.

chico stop with all your BS you're as bad as the rest of the GOP assholes. There was no defund the Police situation in this shooting or in Buffalo, comparing these incidents to a rise in crime in the cities is fucking stupid. To blame the Dems because the GOP won't pass gun laws shows how ignorant and stupid you are.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

No, the police did not confront him and they did not have security at the school. A lotta misinformation initially, but people just trying to get answers…so I get it.

But the police response was absolutely pathetic from what I read as “what happened” unfolds.

I think maybe raising the age for semi automatic rifles to 21 would be something to think about. I really think security for schools would be another, take the money from 100 billion the teachers Union stole in the Covid bill. 1-2 year mandatory sentence for an Illegal possessed firearm.

Those are my suggestions. But I’ll be damned if I’m gonna continue to hear all this horseshit whining from the left who run the most dangerous, violence ridden shit holes in this country who refuse to prosecute daily gun crimes in their own city.

Sit the fuck down.

We just need to think a little harder... and pray a little harder. Amen - this is fucking classic

G1 I admire you - you're like an attack dog every time Chico posts you're on it.

But I don't entirely disagree with Chico for once on this. I agree - raising the age to own a semi-automatic rifle to 21 might help. If you're 18 and you want one - great, join the military. Let a military qualified weapons master determine if you are of sound mind and maturity - if you pass boot camp you can buy a semi-auto rifle outright. If not, gotta wait until you're 21. But don't fret - if your parents own one and want to take you to go get some range practice in or whatever they are more than welcome to do so. You just can't own one outright. But the goal is to stop teenagers having a miserable life experience from going out and buying an AR-15 almost immediately after they turn 18. It's not gonna solve every mass shooting - Vegas would've still happened amongst others - but it would prevent some of them. And aren't we at least in agreement some of these can be prevented?

I also agree with Chico on illegal gun possession - if you are caught possessing a stolen gun or a gun with the serial numbers filed off - that's grounds for a 6mo-1 year minimum sentence. No evidence to back me up on this but I feel like most of the people buying stolen guns or stealing them outright have bad intentions.

Defund the police - well it's only natural Chico latches on to a theory only a small segment of liberals are vehemently promoting and then acts like all of us wholeheartedly endorse it. I'm not against taking money out of the police budget if there was a legit better cause that money needs to go to. But just taking serious money out of the budget for no reason other than cops=bad - you gotta do better than that imo.

The one thing I'd really like to know is how much the illegal gun trade contributes to gun violence in high-crime areas. How many legal gun owners are getting their shit stolen and then sold somewhere else with the serial filed off? How many murder weapons - or even guns used in a shooting and recovered later - were stolen? How many were straw purchases? How many were bought legally? How many did a kid in Chicago drive half an hour into Indiana to buy? Yes mass shootings don't negate all of the other gun violence that happens in America - but how are guns so easily accessible in the black market or via loophole?

Dan Crenshaw didn't even wait a week - he said red flag laws are off the table because there should already be laws on the books that hold criminals accountable (if they are violating the law in some manner before they go off and kill a bunch of people). I guess if you're an insane kid who said a bunch of terrible shit online - but never got criminally charged for any of it - well you can still legally buy a gun the day of your 18th birthday and then murder a bunch of kids. There's your loophole, young psychopaths who have no criminal record.

[CRedskinsRule]

Past 10 years per year:
# of abortions per year >700,000 (assuming 1% viability rate) > 7,000 children lives lost

# of late term abortions (after 20 weeks) - *stats are less easy to find so only 2015* >17000 - 1% elective = 1,700

# of children killed/injured per year by gun violence - <1000


my point is not to negate the need for better mental health and gun laws, but much like mooby says how pro-lifers care more for the unborn than the living, I don't understand why those kids killed before birth are so much less discounted than children who have been born.

Both of these things are blights on the fabric of the US, and they are destroying our nation every day.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Past 10 years per year:
# of abortions per year >700,000 (assuming 1% viability rate) > 7,000 children lives lost

# of late term abortions (after 20 weeks) - *stats are less easy to find so only 2015* >17000 - 1% elective = 1,700

# of children killed/injured per year by gun violence - <1000


my point is not to negate the need for better mental health and gun laws, but much like mooby says how pro-lifers care more for the unborn than the living, I don't understand why those kids killed before birth are so much less discounted than children who have been born.

Both of these things are blights on the fabric of the US, and they are destroying our nation every day.

You honestly don't understand the difference between an abortion, a medical procedure and a nut job with a assault gun walking into a school and blowing away kids and Teachers?

[sdskinsfan2001]

I'm all for discussing how to keep people that have previously committed gun crimes and/or are evil and/or have mental health issues from getting guns. We also need to find, charge, and try people that make terroristic threats. Posting about shooting up a school is way worse to me than lots of things people go to jail for in this country. Those people who are found guilty either need to be sent to prison or a mandatory mental health facility.

I'm OK with raising the age to own guns to 21 as well. We have rights, but we also don't just give every right to every person at any age. There is a certain level of growth and maturity required for lots of things we do in America.

What I'm not OK with on any level, is banning any law abiding citizen of age from owning any type weapon they want. That is not right and un-American. So what if I don't "need" a semi-automatic gun. If I want one, that's my prerogative as an American under the constitution.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Giantone

You honestly don't understand the difference between an abortion, a medical procedure and a nut job with a assault gun walking into a school and blowing away kids and Teachers?

I understand the difference, I also understand the end results.

a few differences:
A medical procedure is entirely preventable through appropriate laws and practices.

An evil person with evil intent is far harder to prevent regardless of the laws in place.
___
An abortion, not due to medical necessity/rape/incest, is highly preventable by people taking responsibility for their actions, and using appropriate protection

A nut job with no previous history is not highly preventable but could be better perceived if our mental health system were not so poorly funded.

___

The world would be a better place if killing innocents through any means was treated as equal evils.

Life is precious, what we do to protect life says a lot about us and our society, and right now our society fails both on abortions and guns.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

I'm all for discussing how to keep people that have previously committed gun crimes and/or are evil and/or have mental health issues from getting guns. We also need to find, charge, and try people that make terroristic threats. Posting about shooting up a school is way worse to me than lots of things people go to jail for in this country. Those people who are found guilty either need to be sent to prison or a mandatory mental health facility.

I'm OK with raising the age to own guns to 21 as well. We have rights, but we also don't just give every right to every person at any age. There is a certain level of growth and maturity required for lots of things we do in America.

What I'm not OK with on any level, is banning any law abiding citizen of age from owning any type weapon they want. That is not right and un-American. So what if I don't "need" a semi-automatic gun. If I want one, that's my prerogative as an American under the constitution.

I agree with all of this.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

I'm all for discussing how to keep people that have previously committed gun crimes and/or are evil and/or have mental health issues from getting guns. We also need to find, charge, and try people that make terroristic threats. Posting about shooting up a school is way worse to me than lots of things people go to jail for in this country. Those people who are found guilty either need to be sent to prison or a mandatory mental health facility.

I'm OK with raising the age to own guns to 21 as well. We have rights, but we also don't just give every right to every person at any age. There is a certain level of growth and maturity required for lots of things we do in America.

What I'm not OK with on any level, is banning any law abiding citizen of age from owning any type weapon they want. That is not right and un-American. So what if I don't "need" a semi-automatic gun. If I want one, that's my prerogative as an American under the constitution.

No it's not , I understand the pro gun NRA backers claim it is but at no point does the second Amendment say you have a God given right as an American to own a assault weapon.

U.S. Constitution - Second Amendment | Library of Congresshttps://constitution.congress.gov › amendment-2

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


By your definition every American has the right to own an Atomic Bomb if they want.

The Founder Fathers didn't recognize Women or Blacks so does the 2nd amendment include them, remember all they were talking about were rights of white property owning males ?At the time the Constitution was written the US Armed Forces as they do today ,so much for your Militia.


Your attitude assumes the Framers of the Constitution were always right but we know they weren't and we correct their wrongs, their mistakes. This has to be changed.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I understand the difference, I also understand the end results.

a few differences:
A medical procedure is entirely preventable through appropriate laws and practices.

An evil person with evil intent is far harder to prevent regardless of the laws in place.
___
An abortion, not due to medical necessity/rape/incest, is highly preventable by people taking responsibility for their actions, and using appropriate protection

A nut job with no previous history is not highly preventable but could be better perceived if our mental health system were not so poorly funded.

___

The world would be a better place if killing innocents through any means was treated as equal evils.

Life is precious, what we do to protect life says a lot about us and our society, and right now our society fails both on abortions and guns.

In your opinion. The two are completely different things and different discussions and should be treated as such.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by Giantone

No it's not , I understand the pro gun NRA backers claim it is but at no point does the second Amendment say you have a God given right as an American to own a assault weapon.

U.S. Constitution - Second Amendment | Library of Congresshttps://constitution.congress.gov › amendment-2

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

By your definition every American has the right to own an Atomic Bomb if they want.

The Founder Fathers didn't recognize Women or Blacks so does the 2nd amendment include them, remember all they were talking about were rights of white property owning males ?At the time the Constitution was written the US Armed Forces as they do today ,so much for your Militia.

Your attitude assumes the Framers of the Constitution were always right but we know they weren't and we correct their wrongs, their mistakes. This has to be changed.

No it's not , I understand the pro gun NRA backers claim it is but at no point does the second Amendment say you have a God given right as an American to own a assault weapon.

- You can twist "shall not be infringed" all you want to, but it doesn't change what it says. Shall not be infringed is as clear as day as to what it means. It means it shall not be infringed. So it literally says exactly what you're saying it doesn't.

U.S. Constitution - Second Amendment | Library of Congresshttps://constitution.congress.gov › amendment-2

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

By your definition every American has the right to own an Atomic Bomb if they want.

- At a cost of around 28 million each (at minimum), I don't think this is a legitimate issue. But way to use the most ridiculous extreme example possible.

The Founder Fathers didn't recognize Women or Blacks so does the 2nd amendment include them, remember all they were talking about were rights of white property owning males? At the time the Constitution was written the US Armed Forces as they do today ,so much for your Militia.

- Is this a serious question? Again it says "the right of the people". It doesn't say the right of white men.

Your attitude assumes the Framers of the Constitution were always right but we know they weren't and we correct their wrongs, their mistakes. This has to be changed.

- Your attitide assumes they were always wrong and must be corrected. Which they actually put a process in place for anyways.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

No it's not , I understand the pro gun NRA backers claim it is but at no point does the second Amendment say you have a God given right as an American to own a assault weapon.

- You can twist "shall not be infringed" all you want to, but it doesn't change what it says. Shall not be infringed is as clear as day as to what it means. It means it shall not be infringed. So it literally says exactly what you're saying it doesn't.

U.S. Constitution - Second Amendment | Library of Congresshttps://constitution.congress.gov › amendment-2

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

By your definition every American has the right to own an Atomic Bomb if they want.

- At a cost of around 28 million each (at minimum), I don't think this is a legitimate issue. But way to use the most ridiculous extreme example possible.

The Founder Fathers didn't recognize Women or Blacks so does the 2nd amendment include them, remember all they were talking about were rights of white property owning males? At the time the Constitution was written the US Armed Forces as they do today ,so much for your Militia.

- Is this a serious question? Again it says "the right of the people". It doesn't say the right of white men.

Your attitude assumes the Framers of the Constitution were always right but we know they weren't and we correct their wrongs, their mistakes. This has to be changed.

- Your attitide assumes they were always wrong and must be corrected. Which they actually put a process in place for anyways.

1) Might be a ridiculous example but it makes my point and you can't refute it.
2)You're a smarter person then to try and pull of this "of the people" ,these white planation Owners never mentioned women or blacks in the constitution so you're telling me that even back then all blacks had the right to own guns, women had that right too? If true why did Lincoln have to stop slavery?
3)The Framers of the Constitution talked about what they knew and set it up to grow with the Country as it grew, they weren't wrong it's a living thing and they set it up to be changed as the Country did for the future not a fucking political football for gun nuts to hide behind.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I agree with all of this.

sorry to hear this.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by Giantone

1) Might be a ridiculous example but it makes my point and you can't refute it.
2)You're a smarter person then to try and pull of this "of the people" ,these white planation Owners never mentioned women or blacks in the constitution so you're telling me that even back then all blacks had the right to own guns, women had that right too? If true why did Lincoln have to stop slavery?
3)The Framers of the Constitution talked about what they knew and set it up to grow with the Country as it grew, they weren't wrong it's a living thing and they set it up to be changed as the Country did for the future not a fucking political football for gun nuts to hide behind.

There is nothing to refute. You can't buy a nuclear bomb anywhere. And 99.99% of all Americans couldn't afford one even if they wanted to. This doesn't offer anything to a real conversation about gun laws in our country.

Again, you can twist the words all you want to fit your narrative. But it says what it says. And this is also irrelevant to having a real conversation about gun laws in our country. Obviously black, brown, neon green, purple, etc. Americans have the same rights to buy a gun as any white person. Same with women. No one I have ever heard argue for our 2nd amendment rights has ever mentioned that this right is only for white mean.

If you want to get rid of guns, get the Constitution amended. That is the process. If you can't do that, then you have to find other solutions.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

There is nothing to refute. You can't buy a nuclear bomb anywhere. And 99.99% of all Americans couldn't afford one even if they wanted to. This doesn't offer anything to a real conversation about gun laws in our country.

Again, you can twist the words all you want to fit your narrative. But it says what it says. And this is also irrelevant to having a real conversation about gun laws in our country. Obviously black, brown, neon green, purple, etc. Americans have the same rights to buy a gun as any white person. Same with women. No one I have ever heard argue for our 2nd amendment rights has ever mentioned that this right is only for white mean.

If you want to get rid of guns, get the Constitution amended. That is the process. If you can't do that, then you have to find other solutions.

Twist words????? Look at your own post's for twisted words . My narrative is the truth and that bothers you but it's the truth. Now those American have rights to buy guns but when the Constitution was written they had no rights, none for years under the very Constitution you scream up holds your rights. they did not, not twisting shit! The NRA will not allow the Constitution to be amended they will call for a civil war and people like you and others will push it no matter how many children die at schools. As for other solutions the republican party NRA will not allow it.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Twist words????? Look at your own post's for twisted words . My narrative is the truth and that bothers you but it's the truth. Now those American have rights to buy guns but when the Constitution was written they had no rights, none for years under the very Constitution you scream up holds your rights. they did not, not twisting shit! The NRA will not allow the Constitution to be amended they will call for a civil war and people like you and others will push it no matter how many children die at schools. As for other solutions the republican party NRA will not allow it.

I don't get what your truth is. You are disregarding or changing the meaning of the 2nd amendment. I have the 2nd amendment as written on my side. You have interpreting the words to fit your narrative on your side.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Of the people: It doesn't say of certain people. It says people. Anything you add, change, or disregard is twisting the words.

Bear Arms: It doesn't say bear certain arms that democrats and fake republicans approve of. Anything you add, change, or disregard is twisting the words.

Shall not be infringed: It means it shall not be infringed. Anything you add, change, or disregard is twisting the words.

You act like you're more reasonable than people that support the 2nd amendment. You don't want debate, you want complete capitulation to the democrats gun laws.