Redskins Off Season things.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by scowan

What are some of the name alternatives that have been thought of anyway? I know some media types have done some polls. I think they should just name the team the Washington Warriors and basically keep the same logo and maybe even the same fonts and colors. No more scripted "R", but keep the Indian head logo on the helment and you are done.

If the name goes you can bet the Indian logo will too.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by That Guy

In general, the "I'm right and you're stupid" argument isn't a very good one.

just because you're not offended or it wasn't considered offensive at some points in history doesn't mean that the context can't change. (there were a lot of places in the US called N-this and N-that at one point too, and now there aren't very many left).

I personally wish everyone had thicker skin and were less trigger happy with lawsuits. I don't think dan caves until/unless they get to his money/revenue. It seems like money is the only thing that really talks in this country.

At what point do the.....Extreme minority get to decide the fate of the majority in something like this (even though nobody is....really offended). It's really not about being offended. It's really a handful of Indians in the Oneida tribe and a whole shitload of PC Anglo's with nothing better to do than stick their heads up your ass and mine.......and decide for all of us what's best for......us.
How many high schools are named Redskin in this country 50?....100?
Manipulative PC BS....nothing more.
AND....thicker skins and tolerance would be nice.

[Alvin Walton]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

If the name goes you can bet the Indian logo will too.

Yes, or you just ask for more trouble later......
If it comes to that I think that Snyder will think long and hard of a name that will deflect all political correct horsecrap in the future.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by That Guy

In general, the "I'm right and you're stupid" argument isn't a very good one.

Unless one side is so stupid, like the anti-vax crowd, it has to be called out. I'm not just calling anti-redskin people stupid, I explained *why* they are acting stupidly above.

Geez people, they are calling you and I RACISTS. Again, they are calling us all *RACISTS*. Name calling has gone on for awhile, call things what they actually are and point out their stupidity. Strict etiquette arguments were abandoned by the anti-redskins side a long time ago. When the anti-redskin side says the name is associated with scalps, point out that no historical document links the two, and call them stupid if they persist. If they say the only NFL mascots are animals... and the Redskins, point out their stupidity. You'd have to be living under a rock to not know that last claim of theirs is false.

Originally Posted by That Guy

just because you're not offended or it wasn't considered offensive at some points in history doesn't mean that the context can't change. (there were a lot of places in the US called N-this and N-that at one point too, and now there aren't very many left).

The only contexts the name is used now is a self identifier to root for, by an NFL team (and some Native American school teams), and old movies and books that should be gotten after by the PC crowd if they really cared about native americans being insulted and slurred. (guess what, they don't).

Good to know context can change. Again, how is the term used now?

Originally Posted by That Guy

I personally wish everyone had thicker skin and were less trigger happy with lawsuits. I don't think dan caves until/unless they get to his money/revenue. It seems like money is the only thing that really talks in this country.

And perception. We have a bunch of people calling us a bunch of racists. I am offended at that, aren't you? On this issue we are right, they are wrong. But unless more people stand up to the PC crowd and say "no, your claim is BS", guess whose perception wins?

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

Yes, or you just ask for more trouble later......
If it comes to that I think that Snyder will think long and hard of a name that will deflect all political correct horsecrap in the future.

I hear "Bullets" is available.......

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I hear "Bullets" is available.......

Maybe we can use the Ravens and Baltimore could use Bullets.

Sent from my S6 Edge

[Hog1]

Nice!
It would seem more consistent with the city.....of late

[Ruhskins]

I still think Snyder should just have a team with no name, just call it Washington.

[That Guy]

Redskin | Define Redskin at Dictionary.com
redskin: definition of redskin in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)

MW and oxford dictionaries both define it as racist/taboo/derogatory, for what it's worth.

and the only context is definitely not as an NFL team name. we're not the the washington borknoggers. again you may think it's silly and I'm not pushing for a name change, but it is what it is.

[Hog1]

Redskins: The debate over the Washington football team's name incorrectly invokes history.



In 2005, the Indian language scholar Ives Goddard of the Smithsonian Institution published a remarkable and consequential study of redskin's early history. His findings shifted the dates for the word's first appearance in print by more than a century and shed an awkward light on the contemporary debate. Goddard found, in summary, that "the actual origin of the word is entirely benign."

Redskin, he learned, had not emerged first in English or any European language. The English term, in fact, derived from Native American phrases involving the color red in combination with terms for flesh, skin, and man. These phrases were part of a racial vocabulary that Indians often used to designate themselves in opposition to others whom they (like the Europeans) called black, white, and so on.

But the language into which those terms for Indians were first translated was French. The tribes among whom the proto forms of redskin first appeared lived in the area of the upper Mississippi River called Illinois country. Their extensive contact with French-speaking colonists, before the French pulled out of North America, led to these phrases being translated, in the 1760s, more or less literally as peau-rouge and only then into English as redskin. It bears mentioning that many such translators were mixed-blood Indians.

Ives Goddard / Home Page

Worth spending a few minutes reading.......both
Has....actual educational worth rather than the media driven nonsense, and he addresses some of that.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Redskins: The debate over the Washington football team's name incorrectly invokes history.



In 2005, the Indian language scholar Ives Goddard of the Smithsonian Institution published a remarkable and consequential study of redskin's early history. His findings shifted the dates for the word's first appearance in print by more than a century and shed an awkward light on the contemporary debate. Goddard found, in summary, that "the actual origin of the word is entirely benign."

Redskin, he learned, had not emerged first in English or any European language. The English term, in fact, derived from Native American phrases involving the color red in combination with terms for flesh, skin, and man. These phrases were part of a racial vocabulary that Indians often used to designate themselves in opposition to others whom they (like the Europeans) called black, white, and so on.

But the language into which those terms for Indians were first translated was French. The tribes among whom the proto forms of redskin first appeared lived in the area of the upper Mississippi River called Illinois country. Their extensive contact with French-speaking colonists, before the French pulled out of North America, led to these phrases being translated, in the 1760s, more or less literally as peau-rouge and only then into English as redskin. It bears mentioning that many such translators were mixed-blood Indians.

Ives Goddard / Home Page

Worth spending a few minutes reading.......both
Has....actual educational worth rather than the media driven nonsense, and he addresses some of that.

Yep. Good read. It's been around, and largely ignored in the debate, because it doesn't back the narrative of the name being "racist".

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Yep. Good read. It's been around, and largely ignored in the debate, because it doesn't back the narrative of the name being "racist".

.......and then you have things like this .



Update: Yes, A 'Redskin' Does, In Fact, Mean the Scalped Head of a Native American, Sold, Like a Pelt, for Cash

[over the mountain]

i really dont have much say either way in this debate. i see both sides points.

Has anyone ever been wearing redskins gear and had someone ask you about the name?

Wearing skins gear in the DMV is done without any second thought.

assume you are on a cross country road trip - would you have second thoughts about wearing skins gear in oklahoma or a reserve along the highway where they sell stuff?

i think i would take my hat off. which makes me kinda think if i wouldnt wear skins gear in front of a NA, why would i wear it period?

Im punting on the issue personally.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I still think Snyder should just have a team with no name, just call it Washington.

I agree. Drop the name Redskins and call them Washington or Washington Football and keep the logo and uniforms the same.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

i really dont have much say either way in this debate. i see both sides points.



Has anyone ever been wearing redskins gear and had someone ask you about the name?



Wearing skins gear in the DMV is done without any second thought.



assume you are on a cross country road trip - would you have second thoughts about wearing skins gear in oklahoma or a reserve along the highway where they sell stuff?



i think i would take my hat off. which makes me kinda think if i wouldnt wear skins gear in front of a NA, why would i wear it period?



Im punting on the issue personally.

The only feedback I've experienced personally is in support of the name.