Updated Title: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Reinstated

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

I'm tempted to suggest that both parties split the difference but part of me also believes thats a TERRIBLE way to settle any negotiation. Splitting the difference is what causes people to overreach on demands hiding the target they're really aiming for. Kind of like the 18 game proposal where the owners offer it knowing the players will never accept it then take it away calling it a concession.

So like lets say I have an offer to get $2 million and I want $4 million so I ask for $6 million. It's just ridiculous that we have to engage in these stupid tactics when we negotiate.

Yeah not sure where shooting for the moon became the norm for opening negotiations. I see ridiculous settlement demands all the time in my line of work. The final settlement amount is always nowhere near the initial demand.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by celts32

I get what you are saying from an overall league view, but in terms of the Redskins the best thing that can happen is this lockout ending as soon as possible. The Redskins have 12 draft picks to get up to speed, they have additional holes to fill in free agency, they have uncertainty at the QB position. Every day this thing extends on is one more nail in the coffin of the the 2011 Redskins! So right now i don't care about the owners trying to get out of a bad deal 4 years from now. I care about the Redskins who I spend a lot of money to see play having a fair chance to field a competitive team.

If the redskins were the only team undergoing a lock out I would agree with you, but all 32 NFL teams are going through the same lockout and will experience a similar impact. There are a number of teams with new coaching staffs and they are at the biggest disadvantage. Yeah we've got 12 rookies but only 2 or 3 of them are likely to contribute immediately out of a 53 man roster so the impact there is minimal.

I'm a redskins fan but im a football fan first. I neleive a lifted lockout would ultimately result In an NFL where there is no draft and 5 percent of the players get 95 percent of the money. Ticket prices will increase out of control an the sport itself will suffer greatly as marquee teams collect all the top college talent. All the things we love about the game--- and the redskins--- would be greatly diminished. Were already neck deep in this. A little mre won't kill anyone

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

If the redskins were the only team undergoing a lock out I would agree with you, but all 32 NFL teams are going through the same lockout and will experience a similar impact. There are a number of teams with new coaching staffs and they are at the biggest disadvantage. Yeah we've got 12 rookies but only 2 or 3 of them are likely to contribute immediately out of a 53 man roster so the impact there is minimal.

I'm a redskins fan but im a football fan first. I neleive a lifted lockout would ultimately result In an NFL where there is no draft and 5 percent of the players get 95 percent of the money. Ticket prices will increase out of control an the sport itself will suffer greatly as marquee teams collect all the top college talent. All the things we love about the game--- and the redskins--- would be greatly diminished. Were already neck deep in this. A little mre won't kill anyone

Fair points. I do believe though that many teams will have crappy seasons. Teams with high prized drafted rookies will have a bad start and teams with new coaching will also get off to a poor startsdue to lack of preparation (see our terrible 3-4 defense performance last year). I still see it as owners willing to sacrifice a season, even if a deal gets done, for their benefit. The question is...can the current NFL cope with a crappy and maybe shortened season? Remember that the last time this happened the NFL was very different (I.e. no free agency, etc.)

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[sportscurmudgeon]

The player-led workouts have received press attention. What we will know later on - - assuming this lockout continues at least through mid-June - - is just how hard the players are pushing themselves without coaches overseeing the workouts.

I suspect there will be an epidemic of pulled hamstrings early in the season as guys who did not work as hard as they should have go through an abbreviated exhibition season and training camp.

I suspect that rookies will do more than expected because their youth and "low-mileage-bodies" will give them a physical edge later in the season.

I suspect that rookie QBs will be VERY confused.

I suspect that there will be a lot of teams who will be very unhappy with some of the Free Agents they sign when they see how far from peak condition those players have allowed themselves to get.

The 2011 season will probably not be a pretty one - - just as these negotiations and legal wranglings have not been pretty.

BTW the appeals court will hear arguments on the case on 3 June. That is a Friday. Unless the lawyers for one side in the case totally sh*t the bed, it is unlikely that the court will offer its decision before the end of the following week (10 June). Therefore, even if that court proceeding is the end of the legal wrangling - - and I seriously doubt that it will be - - the lockout will probably go on until at least mid-June.

If the owners win there - - or if there is an appeal by whomever loses to have the case reheard by the 8th Circuit Court sitting en banc - - the lockout will probably be in place through late-July/mid-August.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

If the redskins were the only team undergoing a lock out I would agree with you, but all 32 NFL teams are going through the same lockout and will experience a similar impact. There are a number of teams with new coaching staffs and they are at the biggest disadvantage. Yeah we've got 12 rookies but only 2 or 3 of them are likely to contribute immediately out of a 53 man roster so the impact there is minimal.

I'm a redskins fan but im a football fan first. I neleive a lifted lockout would ultimately result In an NFL where there is no draft and 5 percent of the players get 95 percent of the money. Ticket prices will increase out of control an the sport itself will suffer greatly as marquee teams collect all the top college talent. All the things we love about the game--- and the redskins--- would be greatly diminished. Were already neck deep in this. A little mre won't kill anyone

The Redskins are not the only team that will be affected but they are among the teams that will be most affected by this thing lasting into the late summer. What you will have is all the teams that were good last year and have things in place will be the teams that are good again. Basically it will be a continuation of last year. And I do not want to pay for a continuation of last year.

Also I do not believe that a lifted lockout would result in no draft and 5% of the players getting all the money. All it would do is force them to continue on with the season while they negotiated and it would create more leverage for the players. Also lets remember...the players didn't ask for anything other then what they already have. It's the owners who want give backs at a time when the league has never been more popular. The players are not looking to abolish the draft and ruine the league...they just want the same deal they had 2 years ago that the owners opted out of.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by celts32

The Redskins are not the only team that will be affected but they are among the teams that will be most affected by this thing lasting into the late summer. What you will have is all the teams that were good last year and have things in place will be the teams that are good again. Basically it will be a continuation of last year. And I do not want to pay for a continuation of last year.

Also I do not believe that a lifted lockout would result in no draft and 5% of the players getting all the money. All it would do is force them to continue on with the season while they negotiated and it would create more leverage for the players. Also lets remember...the players didn't ask for anything other then what they already have. It's the owners who want give backs at a time when the league has never been more popular. The players are not looking to abolish the draft and ruine the league...they just want the same deal they had 2 years ago that the owners opted out of.

There is a huge disconnect between what the players themselves ask for and what demaurice smith and the Nflpa's lawyers are asking for... Additionally, although you say the players are just asking for what they have now, you ignore the fact that that, by default, means the owners take less. Costs go up and the owners do not want to pass that expense on to the fans in the form of higher ticket prices. The players on the other hand have no qualms about passing on expenses to the fans as they've insisted that only revenues be shared and not expenses.

The players are 100% in the wrong and I hope, for the sake of the fans, and the game, that both sides resume talks ASAP. If the players elected president were willing to negotiate in good faith, the sport wouldn't be in this mess

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

There is a huge disconnect between what the players themselves ask for and what demaurice smith and the Nflpa's lawyers are asking for... Additionally, although you say the players are just asking for what they have now, you ignore the fact that that, by default, means the owners take less. Costs go up and the owners do not want to pass that expense on to the fans in the form of higher ticket prices. The players on the other hand have no qualms about passing on expenses to the fans as they've insisted that only revenues be shared and not expenses.

The players are 100% in the wrong and I hope, for the sake of the fans, and the game, that both sides resume talks ASAP. If the players elected president were willing to negotiate in good faith, the sport wouldn't be in this mess

Are these the same owners that ask tax payers to fund a large portion of their new stadiums? I don't get how someone can be that 100% for the owners. I'm not saying the players argument is flawless but like I said the lockout is affecting a lot of people and not just the players. Yet the owners seem content on keping the lockout going. Maybe u'll get ur wish and the players fold to the owners demands, since they have more to lose that the owners (not to mention the league and team employees).

Regardless let's get ready for a shitty season...if it happens at all.

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[celts32]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

There is a huge disconnect between what the players themselves ask for and what demaurice smith and the Nflpa's lawyers are asking for... Additionally, although you say the players are just asking for what they have now, you ignore the fact that that, by default, means the owners take less. Costs go up and the owners do not want to pass that expense on to the fans in the form of higher ticket prices. The players on the other hand have no qualms about passing on expenses to the fans as they've insisted that only revenues be shared and not expenses.

The players are 100% in the wrong and I hope, for the sake of the fans, and the game, that both sides resume talks ASAP. If the players elected president were willing to negotiate in good faith, the sport wouldn't be in this mess

You make some good points about costs going up. I think our differences arrise in that your #1 priority is a deal thats best for the league overall no matter how long it takes to get it. My #1 priority is the 2011 Redskins and they are on life support and will not survive a late summer CBA...

[Redskin Warrior]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Are these the same owners that ask tax payers to fund a large portion of their new stadiums? I don't get how someone can be that 100% for the owners. I'm not saying the players argument is flawless but like I said the lockout is affecting a lot of people and not just the players. Yet the owners seem content on keping the lockout going. Maybe u'll get ur wish and the players fold to the owners demands, since they have more to lose that the owners (not to mention the league and team employees).

Regardless let's get ready for a shitty season...if it happens at all.

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If the season doesn't not happen at all next years draft how do they determine the draft order?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Redskin Warrior

If the season doesn't not happen at all next years draft how do they determine the draft order?

Well if they get to the point of cancelling a season the next year's draft would be in serious jeopardy as well

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Well if they get to the point of cancelling a season the next year's draft would be in serious jeopardy as well

This is what I get out of it to or what I've heard said mostly.


Hypothetical here: Imagine if they kept the same draft order next year even if the year was cancelled. It would also mean the Panthers would chose another QB with their first pick of the draft in all three years...lol

Clausen
Newton
Luck

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

There is a huge disconnect between what the players themselves ask for and what demaurice smith and the Nflpa's lawyers are asking for... Additionally, although you say the players are just asking for what they have now, you ignore the fact that that, by default, means the owners take less. Costs go up and the owners do not want to pass that expense on to the fans in the form of higher ticket prices. The players on the other hand have no qualms about passing on expenses to the fans as they've insisted that only revenues be shared and not expenses.

The players are 100% in the wrong and I hope, for the sake of the fans, and the game, that both sides resume talks ASAP. If the players elected president were willing to negotiate in good faith, the sport wouldn't be in this mess

Sorry this is so long.
The Net Income is what everyone is arguing about, basically what money remains after all expenses and taxes are taken out of all the revenues. The Net Income varies wildly from team to team. That is the major hold up. The high market/high revenue teams refuse to release all revenue information because they do not want to share more revenue with the small market teams. How can you expect the players to make up all of the shortcoming and not expect the high revenue owners like the Redskins and Cowboys to pony up some as well? All the NFLPA is saying we are open to discuss giving money back, just release all of the revenue information.
The Packers are the only team that has publicly released their entire financial information only because they the only publicly traded team, otherwise we would not have their financial information either. The Packers are in one of the smallest markets in the NFL so it would be expected that their Net Income would be low. Yet they still pocketed $5.2 Million after all expenses.
Packers team treasurer Larry Weyers was quoted as saying, "The increase in the Packers’ net profit was driven by declining investment losses..",
Basically he is saying the driving force behind the drop in Net Income to the Packers is the declining investment from the outside companies. I work for a professional team and the biggest financial loss we suffered during the worst of this this recession about a year and half ago was that our corporate sponsorship deal revenue dropped by 50%. That is what he is talking about. But we have already started to see things going back to the direction of recovery although we are not yet back to normal. The small market teams return to normal will take longer.
The only reason the players have moved this process into the courts is to try and force the release of all of the revenue information. You can not negotiate in good faith if there is money being socked away by some of the owners.
This whole "small market teams" vs. "big market teams" issue has existed way before this labor agreement deal or the economic downturn. This is not something new. It is finally spilling over into the labor agreement because the Owners are asking for money back from the players.
This is not a 100% the players fault situation. It is bigger than that. Both share in the fault.

[Lotus]

It looks like some cheating is going on during the lockout.

Agents: Teams have tampered with undrafted players - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Lotus

It looks like some cheating is going on during the lockout.

Agents: Teams have tampered with undrafted players - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

This doesn't surprise me at all. I feel that coaches and GM are probably hating this lockout and wishing that there is a temporary free agency period while owners/players continue to negotiate.

I wonder if the owners will be lenient with their coaches and GMs this year, given that they've put them in pretty sh*tty situations by not giving them any opportunity to plan and prepare their teams due to the lockout.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Redskin Warrior

If the season doesn't not happen at all next years draft how do they determine the draft order?

If the NFLPA* wins this mess there will never be a draft again, atleast not without some ridiculous concessions from the owners.