Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)

[MTK]

Cool thanks for the numbers. Always nice to see some facts.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Cool thanks for the numbers. Always nice to see some facts.

Yeah. Again, I think it's important to note that a few players can really throw the curve. I'm not sure how meaningful those numbers are. Some of the youngest teams are some of the worst teams. But, it is what it is.

Again, I'll search for the link.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Cool thanks for the numbers. Always nice to see some facts.

Facts, Smacts......BAH!

[MTK]

Stubby was signed on John Kent Cooke's watch. Trivial I know but let's keep the facts straight.

[djnemo65]

I know Matty and others have mentioned this before, but Urlacher is really amping up his demands, promising to boycott minicamp if not given a new contract, in spite of signing a deal only 3 or so years ago making him one of the highest paid LB's in football. And yet there have been no character assaults or derogatory nicknames directed toward him.

Not enough people point out that the Bengals have squandered a Superbowl roster in only 3 short years, and are inarguably one of the worst run teams in football. Why can't Chad's trade requests be related to him wanting to win?

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

A lot of players hold out for better deals and, provided they are not Redskins, I don't really care. What kills me is how Chad is the consummate "Leon Budweiser" receiver that represents everything that is wrong with football. On several occasions Chad Johnson drew personal fouls for excessive celebration, despite knowing such celebrations would cost his team field position. Chad often planned those celebrations well in advance, knowing full well that he would draw those little yellow flags. To draw a flag is forgiveable. To repeatedly plan celebrations that will undoubtedly hurt the team is inexcusable in my book.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

A lot of players hold out for better deals and, provided they are not Redskins, I don't really care. What kills me is how Chad is the consummate "Leon Budweiser" receiver that represents everything that is wrong with football. On several occasions Chad Johnson drew personal fouls for excessive celebration, despite knowing such celebrations would cost his team field position. Chad often planned those celebrations well in advance, knowing full well that he would draw those little yellow flags. To draw a flag is forgiveable. To repeatedly plan celebrations that will undoubtedly hurt the team is inexcusable in my book.

But he produces...consistently. And he's often the first one to practice, and the last one out. And, fair or not, he's an effing saint compared to many of his teammates. What he's done to "hurt" his team shouldn't negate all he's done to help his team and it's far less egregious than what many of his own teammates have done.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

But he produces...consistently. And he's often the first one to practice, and the last one out. And, fair or not, he's an effing saint compared to many of his teammates. What he's done to "hurt" his team shouldn't negate all he's done to help his team and it's far less egregious than what many of his own teammates have done.

I can't deny that he has immense talent, has a great work ethic, and produces. I remember reading quotes from various Bengals players and coaches a few years back and, to a man, they all said Chad works his ass off.

And Chad is certainly no Pacman. I've never heard of Chad getting into any trouble with the law. But, while Chad is not in the class of Pacman-esque turds, he is in the class of T.O. turds. I simply don't like the guy and, admittedly, I'm probably allowing that bias to color my view of the trade talks.

[WaldSkins]

Just saw on ESPNews that we were denied by the cardinals for a possible Boldin trade. Same picks were offered as in the CJ deal.

[The Goat]

I'm less and less excited about CJ or any other vet WR coming to town as part of a big trade. There are 5 1st round quality OTs in the draft with another 2 inside o-lineman and another 4 top tier DTs. Last year proved beyond any reasonable doubt we need young talent at these positions and it's very hard to believe all of the top guys will be gone by the 21st pick. CJ carries a huge risk factor because of his personality w/ the loss of picks we desperately need. For instance, when (not if) our current stock of lineman become injured during the season the downside is huge. Meanwhile, the upside to CJ is questionable and we know exactly what we're giving up: young talent where we need it.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I'm less and less excited about CJ or any other vet WR coming to town as part of a big trade. There are 5 1st round quality OTs in the draft with another 2 inside o-lineman and another 4 top tier DTs. Last year proved beyond any reasonable doubt we need young talent at these positions and it's very hard to believe all of the top guys will be gone by the 21st pick. CJ carries a huge risk factor because of his personality w/ the loss of picks we desperately need. For instance, when (not if) our current stock of lineman become injured during the season the downside is huge. Meanwhile, the upside to CJ is questionable and we know exactly what we're giving up: young talent where we need it.

Really? You think there's that much first-round OL talent in this year's draft?

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Really? You think there's that much first-round OL talent in this year's draft?

no there are 2 OT left for 1st round talent and a guard/tackle

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Really? You think there's that much first-round OL talent in this year's draft?

Sure several drafts have 1) Jake Long 2) Ryan Clady 3) Chris Williams 4) B. Albert 5) Jeff Otah 6) Gosder Cherilus going in the first round. Most of these guys are expected to go before the 21st pick, but I just think it's unlikely all of them will definitely be gone. The steelers have publicly said this is the most talented o-line draft group in 25 years. On the other hand, the top DTs will probably be gone by 21 but who knows. I could be wrong on taking o-line at 21 over a trade for CJ... but I still think it's a much more practical move. I still think young talent on the line kills two birds w/ a single stone: better line (rushing attack/pass protection) and it lets Cooley get away from the line of scrimmage to work his magic. IMO we will all be shocked at what he'll do if given the chance to work more as a receiver. (sorry for being long winded)

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Sure several drafts have 1) Jake Long 2) Ryan Clady 3) Chris Williams 4) B. Albert 5) Jeff Otah 6) Gosder Cherilus going in the first round. Most of these guys are expected to go before the 21st pick, but I just think it's unlikely all of them will definitely be gone. The steelers have publicly said this is the most talented o-line draft group in 25 years. On the other hand, the top DTs will probably be gone by 21 but who knows. I could be wrong on taking o-line at 21 over a trade for CJ... but I still think it's a much more practical move. I still think young talent on the line kills two birds w/ a single stone: better line (rushing attack/pass protection) and it lets Cooley get away from the line of scrimmage to work his magic. IMO we will all be shocked at what he'll do if given the chance to work more as a receiver. (sorry for being long winded)

The Steelers, and others, have said this is the deepest OL draft group (which isn't exactly the same as most talented). I think that even if Otah or Cherilus is there at #21 that is too high to take them. Unless Albert, Williams, or Ryan Clady (I wish!) fell to us at #21 I think we can be as effective addressing our OL needs by selecting something like Schuening and Hills in the 3rd round. In fact, I would argue that what we need more than one great lineman is several very good linemen.

[The Goat]

The other thing I keep thinking is that w/ quality reinforcement on the line we can let Cooley get out and make plays. It's like killing two birds w/ one stone: a better, younger line and a better passing game. Otherwise, we pass on strengthening the line and put all hope in a WR that may or may not pan out.

I'm also worried about CJ working w/ JC. He's gotten spoiled from Palmer, an elite passer, throwing him perfect bombs. I'd be very concerned that JC's accuracy issues would become a source of contention and drama.