D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I've said this in the past, the INTs by Hall would have been more meaningful if the offense would have actually turned those turnovers into points. Unfortunately they didn't turn those TOs into points, so a lot of those INTs were for nothing (literally).

Well, the field position we get on his INTs has value in terms of winning the game, even if the team doesn't move the ball. Maybe less value now that our punt returner is a home run threat, but 5 of Hall's 6 INTs this year had value (exception: the Philly hail mary).

Hall's issue isn't that his INTs aren't paid off by the offense, its that he gives his offense field position, then does a lot to take it away the rest of the game. But he's made measurable improvements against the run, and so a lot of short completions against him go for meaningless amounts of yardage. He's improved a lot against short passes.

I think the biggest issue for Hall's apologists is that many don't seem to want to admit that most teams have a corner who is more valuable than Hall. Sometimes, as an analyst, it's frustrating to see people ignore reality by such a gap as is frequent with Hall. Sometimes, people have to put down Rogers to make Hall look better, which seems really silly to me (I suppose you could say the same about the reverse). But he's a valuable player, and though I think one of the ways to improve the defense would be to use Hall differently (or not at all), I definitely wouldn't want to give back the big plays he gives us while looking for an upgrade.

When Hall pulls the ball out, he usually aims to score. Our defense did none of that under Blache, and it hurt my brain.

[GTripp0012]

A stat that might surprise some people is that Hall doesn't actually intercept passes at a higher rate than the average corner who gets thrown at as many times as he does. Or at least that was the case from 2004-2009. I doubt it's different now with 6 picks in about 105 targets this year: that's pretty standard for the position.

It would be false to say that Hall creates INT opportunities. He does not.

But Hall is in rarefied air on his INT returns: he's just better at them than most guys in the league. Both in terms of yards and scores.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by warpaint

Call me delusional but to be honest I think we are going to the Super Bowl every year.

I haven't quite gotten there yet! Now, if you're talking to me back in the 80's, I'd definitely agree, we'd be a sure bet for the Super Bowl every year!

[skinsguy]

All I really wanted to say about Hall this whole time is the dude got Pro Bowl honors which IS a high honor in the NFL, no matter what a bunch of fans may think about the game itself. A player being a "pro bowl" caliber player seems to be important when we talk about free agents, why would it be different in Hall's case?

[Paintrain]

Full disclosure, I'm a D. Hall fan.. In the landscape of the NFL he's probably an ordinary corner that does extraordinary things. He's got playmaking ability most corners lack, he has makeup speed that's not elite but a slight notch below, he has good route recognition (most of the time) and isn't afraid to step up and make a tackle.

I think his detractors see the plays he makes and chalks them up to luck and focus on his celebrations and see him as a Deion wannabe with nowhere near the talent. If a pass is completed on him or he gets beat for a TD then 'Ah, he sucks!'. In what his strengths are-making plays on the ball, turning INT and fumble returns into points or flipping field position, stepping in and making tackles-he's probably in the top 5 in the league. In the areas he struggles in, man to man with his back to the QB, taking risks and playing trail position-he's average.

End of the day, I'll take the reward that he brings at the expense of the risk of giving up some receptions.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Full disclosure, I'm a D. Hall fan.. In the landscape of the NFL he's probably an ordinary corner that does extraordinary things. He's got playmaking ability most corners lack, he has makeup speed that's not elite but a slight notch below, he has good route recognition (most of the time) and isn't afraid to step up and make a tackle.

I think his detractors see the plays he makes and chalks them up to luck and focus on his celebrations and see him as a Deion wannabe with nowhere near the talent. If a pass is completed on him or he gets beat for a TD then 'Ah, he sucks!'. In what his strengths are-making plays on the ball, turning INT and fumble returns into points or flipping field position, stepping in and making tackles-he's probably in the top 5 in the league. In the areas he struggles in, man to man with his back to the QB, taking risks and playing trail position-he's average.

End of the day, I'll take the reward that he brings at the expense of the risk of giving up some receptions.

I agree with a lot of this. Overall, I think Los and Hall actually complement each other very well, and even though our D had some rough moments, I hope we keep both. Hall has outstanding hands and QB's know that if he's in the area they need to be careful with their throws. That's an asset in Pass Defense if it makes the QB hesitate or re-scan. Los, may not make QB's fear throwing his way, but he can keep his receivers covered very well. This can and has caused problems for opposing QBs and there is a reason PB was getting thrown on as much as he was. Out of all the defensive positions, I would think CB is not one we should be spending a lot of draft or FA effort on.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I agree with a lot of this. Overall, I think Los and Hall actually complement each other very well, and even though our D had some rough moments, I hope we keep both. Hall has outstanding hands and QB's know that if he's in the area they need to be careful with their throws. That's an asset in Pass Defense if it makes the QB hesitate or re-scan. Los, may not make QB's fear throwing his way, but he can keep his receivers covered very well. This can and has caused problems for opposing QBs and there is a reason PB was getting thrown on as much as he was. Out of all the defensive positions, I would think CB is not one we should be spending a lot of draft or FA effort on.

Me too, I think they make a great tandem. Great posts by you and PT, agree 1000 percent. If we could get more consistent pressure on the QB, I think int numbers would increase for both. I believe the only thing lack is consistent play at the FS position. If we could get a fast, all-over-the-field type player at free, Id put Hall, Los, and Landry up against any secondary in the league.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Me too, I think they make a great tandem. Great posts by you and PT, agree 1000 percent. If we could get more consistent pressure on the QB, I think int numbers would increase for both. I believe the only thing lack is consistent play at the FS position. If we could get a fast, all-over-the-field type player at free, Id put Hall, Los, and Landry up against any secondary in the league.

I was sure for awhile Khareem Moore was going to be that guy. After his injury the wheels seem like they just fell off. I still miss ST. HTTR <3 #21

[44ever]

Im sending one to NC_Skins. ASAP...

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Me too, I think they make a great tandem. Great posts by you and PT, agree 1000 percent. If we could get more consistent pressure on the QB, I think int numbers would increase for both. I believe the only thing lack is consistent play at the FS position. If we could get a fast, all-over-the-field type player at free, Id put Hall, Los, and Landry up against any secondary in the league.

That's exactly what I was trying to say to NC_Skins yesterday.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I agree with a lot of this. Overall, I think Los and Hall actually complement each other very well, and even though our D had some rough moments, I hope we keep both. Hall has outstanding hands and QB's know that if he's in the area they need to be careful with their throws. That's an asset in Pass Defense if it makes the QB hesitate or re-scan. Los, may not make QB's fear throwing his way, but he can keep his receivers covered very well. This can and has caused problems for opposing QBs and there is a reason PB was getting thrown on as much as he was. Out of all the defensive positions, I would think CB is not one we should be spending a lot of draft or FA effort on.

Just by the total # of targets, I would argue that no one is thinking twice about throwing at Hall. Not to say everyone is Jay Cutler out there -- targeting him for the sake of targeting him -- but he's averaging between 7 and 8 targets per game as a Redskins. Revis and Asomugha, by comparison, usually see about 2 or 3.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Just by the total # of targets, I would argue that no one is thinking twice about throwing at Hall. Not to say everyone is Jay Cutler out there -- targeting him for the sake of targeting him -- but he's averaging between 7 and 8 targets per game as a Redskins. Revis and Asomugha, by comparison, usually see about 2 or 3.

I guess, I would clarify, that he's not a lockdown type, so yes qb's will throw his way, but that also is because Los is closer to a lockdown type (now give us his stats, cuz I don't have any and am just thinking out loud). I know QBs will throw at Hall, but they most certainly look at him as more of a threat to intercept a ball than Los is.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Just by the total # of targets, I would argue that no one is thinking twice about throwing at Hall. Not to say everyone is Jay Cutler out there -- targeting him for the sake of targeting him -- but he's averaging between 7 and 8 targets per game as a Redskins. Revis and Asomugha, by comparison, usually see about 2 or 3.

GT, you've also said that the cover 2 scheme the skins ran most of the year left pretty big gaps between the cb & safeties. Late in the year you said it improved & I think that showed in the defense's overall improvement, there were fewer easy completions in the seems.

Hall could be more of a shutdown corner IMO, but the defense isn't set up that way & as discussed here, he is a gambler. I think he could have his best years ahead; he's a guy that had to mature as a pro, after being MeAngelo in college & his early years w/ATl. Although I was against signing him, we may be getting the best out of him.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

I was sure for awhile Khareem Moore was going to be that guy. After his injury the wheels seem like they just fell off. I still miss ST. HTTR <3 #21

Me too, I thought he looked really good last year & would step up as a starter. Instead, he looked timid and/or lost much of the time.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Actually he lucked into a few of them that game. Props for being able to hold onto them though lol

He must just be one lucky guy. I don't know... I think if it was one interception, that might just be being at the right place at the right time by accident. But if you're talking about his record-tying performance, that means that he was at the right place at the right time 4 TIMES.

Football is all about team and player positioning on the field.