V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"

[jsarno]

I'm unsure as to which players in history sat out for a better contract and what happened with it, but I can't imagine sitting out the entire season is good for any player. You only have a limited amount of years to play, so don't take one away, and even worse, he won't be getting any better sitting out a year. Who knows if his talents will ever be as high as they are right now?
(in short, VJ is a moron)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by saden1

Give me your top 5.

Fitzgerald, Johnson, Wayne, Jackson, either Moss or Smith at five.

[skinsfaninok]

Agree with Gtripp

[jsarno]

[quote=Dirtbag359;728771]Yeah, but the thing is Austin and Rice passed the 1,300 yard mark. Once a player makes it to that point you know theres something else besides QB play at work. Only player I can think of that struggled after getting 1,300 yards was Javon Walker and that was thanks to injury.

1. Andre Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Randy Moss
4. Calvin Johnson (984 yards in 14 games last year with a rookie QB, 1,300 yards the year before)
5a. Wes Welker (More yards then Moss but 9 fewer TD's)
5b. Roddy White (Got 1,200 yards with one of the worst QB groups in the league in 2007)
7. Boldin
8. Marshall
9. Austin
10. Rice

On top of that VJax isn't even the best receiver on his own team. I'm all for bringing him in at a discount but AJ Smith is all so stubborn.

I disagree with your list. 1-4 is fine, arguable, but fine...wes Welker is not #5. There is a reason he wasn't anything super special in Miami, he's no #1, he's the best damn compliment wr in the game though. Marshall is more talented than most you have mentioned. Jackson is certainly in the top ten or should be very darn close. But I fail to see how he is not the best receiver on his own team. Gates is a TE, and even Gates thinks Jackson is super talented. Floyd? No way. Jackson doesn't get as much credit because San Diego does such a great job at spreading the ball around...especially to the RB's who caught 97 passes total last year. (106 in 08) Gates is a great talent...as a TE, but he would be average at best as a WR. He can not burn DB's in the secondary, and while his route running is excellent vs LB's, DB's would learn how to play him quickly. You can put Jackson as the #1, or even a slot receiver, and he would succeed, same can not be said for Gates. (I only use gates cause I am assuming that's who you were referring to)

[saden1]

There's absolutely no logical reason to include Jackson in the top five and leave DeSean Jackson and Brandon Marshall out...we will simply have to agree to disagree. It don't make sense.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by saden1

Jackson is 28 next January....he ain't no spring chicken and he's certainly not worth the kind of money he's asking for. When these players take over I'll be happy to reevaluate my position.

Just an FYI, Jackson will be 27 all season, and that's the exact year Marvin Harrison broke out, and was extremely productive for 8 more years after that. WR isn't like RB...there is no wall at 30. I'd say the wall for wr's is 34 or 35.
The man is 6'5" 241lbs, and can run pretty darn fast. He's a freak, and on a team like the Skins, 1300+ yards would be extremely likely given we now have a QB to throw to him. DB's just can't match up with him.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by saden1

There's absolutely no logical reason to include Jackson in the top five and leave DeSean Jackson and Brandon Marshall out...we will simply have to agree to disagree. It don't make sense.

I'd take Vincent over DeSean. DeSean is a great Welker type of WR, but not a top ten IMO like Vincent is. I agree about Marshall though.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

DeSean Jackson is not in the top 5 and neither is Vincent Jackson.

1a) Andre Johnson
1b) Larry Fitzgerald
3) Reggie Wayne
4) Brandon Marshall
5) Randy Moss

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by saden1

There's absolutely no logical reason to include Jackson in the top five and leave DeSean Jackson and Brandon Marshall out...we will simply have to agree to disagree. It don't make sense.

Marshall is good. Not great. Just good. No way is he higher than ten on any real list.

Jackson, I mean, do we include punt return value? If we do, he might to enough well to be more valuable than Steve Smith or Randy Moss, as well as Jackson. I like DeSean Jackson, and feel he may become the premier deep threat in football if he isn't already, but I can easily argue that Jackson is already a complete player while much of Jackson's route running remains a work in progress. (By that I mean, more than a year away from being a complete route runner, if he does get there).

I'd take Jackson over Marshall any day though.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Marshall is good. Not great. Just good. No way is he higher than ten on any real list.

Jackson, I mean, do we include punt return value? If we do, he might to enough well to be more valuable than Steve Smith or Randy Moss, as well as Jackson. I like DeSean Jackson, and feel he may become the premier deep threat in football if he isn't already, but I can easily argue that Jackson is already a complete player while much of Jackson's route running remains a work in progress. (By that I mean, more than a year away from being a complete route runner, if he does get there).

I'd take Jackson over Marshall any day though.

I wouldn't, I guess multiple consecutive 100 catch seasons dont carry much weight as it used to

[jsarno]

OK, here's my list:
#1- Andre Johnson (hands down)
#2- Larry Fitzgerald
#3a- Reggie Wayne
#3b- Randy Moss
#5- Brandon Marshall
#6- Calvin Johson
#7- Vincent Jackson
#8- Roddy White
#9- Marques Colston
#10a- Miles Austin
#10b- Steve Smith
#10c- Michael Crabtree

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

I wouldn't, I guess multiple consecutive 100 catch seasons dont carry much weight as it used to

When I think of guys who make the most of their opportunities, I think of guys like Vincent Jackson, Reggie Wayne, DeSean Jackson, Randy Moss, and Miles Austin.

When I think of guys who do the least with their opportunities, I think of Brandon Marshall, Santana Moss, and Roy Williams.

Not that those aren't all good players. They are, in their own different ways.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

When I think of guys who make the most of their opportunities, I think of guys like Vincent Jackson, Reggie Wayne, DeSean Jackson, Randy Moss, and Miles Austin.

When I think of guys who do the least with their opportunities, I think of Brandon Marshall, Santana Moss, and Roy Williams.

Not that those aren't all good players. They are, in their own different ways.

You can put Roy Williams in the same group as BM and SM. Also, Jsarno I cant put Miles Austin or Crabtree in that group yet. Where is the love for Anquain Boldin.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by jsarno

OK, here's my list:
#1- Andre Johnson (hands down)
#2- Larry Fitzgerald
#3a- Reggie Wayne
#3b- Randy Moss
#5- Brandon Marshall
#6- Calvin Johson
#7- Vincent Jackson
#8- Roddy White
#9- Marques Colston
#10a- Miles Austin
#10b- Steve Smith
#10c- Michael Crabtree

Colston at 9??? Really?? He's not better than Steve Smith or Greg Jennings for that matter who I feel is vastly underrated.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

When I think of guys who make the most of their opportunities, I think of guys like Vincent Jackson, Reggie Wayne, DeSean Jackson, Randy Moss, and Miles Austin.

When I think of guys who do the least with their opportunities, I think of Brandon Marshall, Santana Moss, and Roy Williams.

Not that those aren't all good players. They are, in their own different ways.

wow...can't believe Brandon Marshall is in the same sentence as Roy Williams. You do realize that Marshall has been in the league for 4 years and 3 out of those 4 years he has surpassed 100 catches right? He has 307 catches his last 3 years! He had 21 catches in a game last year and even when they knew the ball was coming his way, they couldn't stop him. He also had 18 in a game in 08. Plus he's 6'4", 230lbs!!!
Roy Williams had exactly 1 good year. (82 catches in 06) Even in that year, he was eclipsed but Mike Furrey and his 98 catches! Roy Williams was highly touted, but he never was realized potential like Marshall is.
Moss is what he is. We have used him incorrectly. Moss is immensely talented, but to use him as our #1 was and is a mistake. He's a #2 guy, and if we had someone like Marshall on the other side, Moss would explode for close to 100 catches. Just a shame we never had the sense to get that #1 for him to get the pressure off. Moss has done the best he can with what he was given. Just cause we wanted to see more production out of our #1 doesn't mean he should have been relied on in that fashion.