It's not Brunell's fault!

NYCSkin · 10-23-2006, 03:59 PM

I'll put it on the D right now, by a hair over Brunell. The Dallas game will tell us a lot about whom to blame between these two though. The D will have 6 starters healthy and hopefully ready to play (Griffin, Salavea, Marshall, Washington, Springs, and Rogers) with two weeks to prepare for a Dallas team that will be coming here after traveling to Carolina.

Southpaw · 10-23-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

What I'm saying is suppose Campbell comes out there and he's throwing the same passes, 3 step drop and screen. And we see that whoever is at QB we're still running the same offense, then who do we blame-Gibbs, Saunders, Campbell, the O-line? All I'm saying is we all assume that Campbell is going to come in and launch bombs all game long, but isn't it entirely possible that may not be the case?

If you've heard any of Saunders' comments, he's constantly talking about limiting his play calling. He doesn't directly say that Brunell can't handle it, but he says things like "Mark is good at shorter passes and quick drops" i.e. he can't throw deep. I'm positive that a lot of it is play calling, but it's directly related to Brunell's ability. I don't think Saunders would refrain from calling long passes with Campbell in the lineup.

jdlea · 10-23-2006, 04:08 PM

First of all, Campbell is not a cure-all. I've said plenty of times he doesn't translate to wins. What it means is that since they're going to lose, they'll now lose with a purpose so that a 22/23 year old can learn how to play. Not for a 36 year old to try to learn how to play QB in this system. They're 2-5, they're not going to make the playoffs. Everyone can try to feed me this bs about being 2.5 games back of Philly. Well, the Skins have yet to win 3 games this season against a few mediocre teams so far. So, what makes everyone think they'd somehow make up 3 games against Philly? Cause they play them twice? Well, the d stops no one and the O doesn't put points on the board...that doesn't translate to many wins.

I'm not saying that it is all on Mark Brunell. However, he's the only change that can be made. You can't replace 11 guys on defense. You're not gonna find replacements for everyone playing poorly on defense. You can replace the quarterback, if for nothing else, just ot let the kid learn how to play in the NFL. That's what's important now, getting Campbell ready to play. Leaving Mark in is just stupid.

Now, to absolve Mark Brunell from blame is wrong. I don't understand how anyone can watch that game and think "if they stretched the field they wouldn't be a better team." The defense is bad, so you have to put up points to win. Does anyone ever see a defense's win-loss record? No, but guess what you do see...a quarterback's win-loss record. Mark Brunell's with the Skins? 16-21. That's bad. If he were young I'd say he's developing, but he's old, so he's regressing. There is no reason to leave him in. They could have gone 2-5 with Campbell. And Brunell didn't show me anything that Campbell couldn't have done yesterday. I don't watch Brunell and even think that I can't make the throws he's making. It's embarassing.

Tom Jackson regularly references "the eye test." That's his football eye, Mark Brunell doesn't pass that. Hell, Aikman (a pretty damn good qb in his day) was wondering aloud why Brunell kept checking the damn ball down. So, I would say that's someone around the league that doesn't think he's getting the job done. Oh, and Shannon Sharpe called him out last week. He doesn't think he's getting it done either.

To the question as to what I would think if Campbell came in and did the same thing? I'd blame the coaches. However, I don't believe that Saunders' offense is all checkdowns and screens. I refuse to believe it. Maybe they'd put Jason in and leave the training wheels on for a while so they would be short passes, but I'll be really disappointed. If this is the offense, there's something wrong. I'd say heads should roll, but that doesn't usually help build stability (not the Skins strong point recently). However, I think Gibbs is smart enough to know that you can't win in the NFL throwing that many short passes.

That Guy · 10-23-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southpaw

If you've heard any of Saunders' comments, he's constantly talking about limiting his play calling. He doesn't directly say that Brunell can't handle it, but he says things like "Mark is good at shorter passes and quick drops" i.e. he can't throw deep. I'm positive that a lot of it is play calling, but it's directly related to Brunell's ability. I don't think Saunders would refrain from calling long passes with Campbell in the lineup.

saunders is just covering his @$$. he's already implied he can be vetoed, that brunell isn't any good, that campbell is stupid, that he can't run his offense, the whole portis taking himself out of games things (only AFTER the 3rd down wasn't converted, not before), said that the playbook wasn't being used (AFTER people complained in preseason), and complained that he couldn't see the players in preseason (AFTER they fell flat in week 1), and complained that the talent isn't there.

if you need an excuse, he's the guy to ask.

dmek25 · 10-23-2006, 04:27 PM

maybe thats the reason the guy cant get a head coaching job. not ready to accept any responsibility for anything. i guess that 700 page playbook is second only to the bible

redsk1 · 10-23-2006, 04:43 PM

Last time i checked Saunders system worked pretty good other places. The other places had the right qb though.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 10-23-2006, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

saunders is just covering his @$$. he's already implied he can be vetoed, that brunell isn't any good, that campbell is stupid, that he can't run his offense, the whole portis taking himself out of games things (only AFTER the 3rd down wasn't converted, not before), said that the playbook wasn't being used (AFTER people complained in preseason), and complained that he couldn't see the players in preseason (AFTER they fell flat in week 1), and complained that the talent isn't there.

if you need an excuse, he's the guy to ask.

Saunders is making excuses, but there's some validity to them. Do you really think Brunell is capable of throwing intermediate to deep passes with any reliability?

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 10-23-2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Okay, but all justifications aside, why is he still the 11th rated QB in the 6th rated offense? You make him sound like a horrid player. I'd say as bad as you make his tendencies sound, he's still quite effective against NFL defenses.

What 6th rated offense?

That Guy · 10-23-2006, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Saunders is making excuses, but there's some validity to them. Do you really think Brunell is capable of throwing intermediate to deep passes with any reliability?

there has to be, or else he wouldn't make them. it's just nice how he always has an answer as to why it's not his fault only after the fact.

0421kidwell · 10-23-2006, 05:55 PM

The Hell It's Not Screw Brunell And Gibbs Old People Don't Win Superbowl's Especailly At The Qb Position, Unless Your Name In Bret Favre And Mark Is Not Favre

0421kidwell · 10-23-2006, 05:56 PM

Brunell Cannot Throw The Ball More Than 10 Yards!!! Dallas Will Destroy Us!!

GTripp0012 · 10-23-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

What 6th rated offense?

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2006 and 2005

joekes · 10-23-2006, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

saunders is just covering his @$$. he's already implied he can be vetoed, that brunell isn't any good, that campbell is stupid, that he can't run his offense, the whole portis taking himself out of games things (only AFTER the 3rd down wasn't converted, not before), said that the playbook wasn't being used (AFTER people complained in preseason), and complained that he couldn't see the players in preseason (AFTER they fell flat in week 1), and complained that the talent isn't there.

if you need an excuse, he's the guy to ask.

I completely agree!
Saunders has acted like an arrogant fool ever since the preseason. He refused to run the plays in preseason so he wouldn't show too much, but what could have been stupider than that considering how long it's taken for the system to develop. Ooops.
Then anything that goes wrong he just says that "the system works" and passes the blame to the players.
He's the Offensive coordinator- it's his job to make the system work with the players he has, not just pout like a little bitch that he doesn't have Trent Green and hall of fame offensive linemen.
I wasn't a fan of his KC offense anyway- they could never win when it mattered (NO playoff wins in 5 years), but his arrogance that it can't possibly be his fault is unacceptable - it's his job to adapt. These are the players he has. I mean if he's only a good offensive coordinator with great players, then he's not a good offensive coordinator.

Does anyone know if he actually called the plays in KC (I know he didn't in St. Louis), but did he call them in KC? Or did Vermeil?
Maybe he's just not a good playcaller? Especially, maybe he's not good at making halftime adjustments to his playcalling - something Gibbs always excelled at.

That Guy · 10-23-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2006 and 2005

the garbage time still inflates those stats.

That Guy · 10-23-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joekes

I completely agree!
Saunders has acted like an arrogant fool ever since the preseason. He refused to run the plays in preseason so he wouldn't show too much, but what could have been stupider than that considering how long it's taken for the system to develop. Ooops.
Then anything that goes wrong he just says that "the system works" and passes the blame to the players.
He's the Offensive coordinator- it's his job to make the system work with the players he has, not just pout like a little bitch that he doesn't have Trent Green and hall of fame offensive linemen.
I wasn't a fan of his KC offense anyway- they could never win when it mattered (NO playoff wins in 5 years), but his arrogance that it can't possibly be his fault is unacceptable - it's his job to adapt. These are the players he has. I mean if he's only a good offensive coordinator with great players, then he's not a good offensive coordinator.

Does anyone know if he actually called the plays in KC (I know he didn't in St. Louis), but did he call them in KC? Or did Vermeil?
Maybe he's just not a good playcaller? Especially, maybe he's not good at making halftime adjustments to his playcalling - something Gibbs always excelled at.

i believe he called plays in KC. it's easier with HoF OL and good QBs though.

10-23-2006, 03:59 PM	#151
NYCSkin Impact Rookie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Age: 53 Posts: 513	Re: It's not Brunell's fault! I'll put it on the D right now, by a hair over Brunell. The Dallas game will tell us a lot about whom to blame between these two though. The D will have 6 starters healthy and hopefully ready to play (Griffin, Salavea, Marshall, Washington, Springs, and Rogers) with two weeks to prepare for a Dallas team that will be coming here after traveling to Carolina.

10-23-2006, 04:08 PM	#153
jdlea Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 40 Posts: 3,109	Re: It's not Brunell's fault! First of all, Campbell is not a cure-all. I've said plenty of times he doesn't translate to wins. What it means is that since they're going to lose, they'll now lose with a purpose so that a 22/23 year old can learn how to play. Not for a 36 year old to try to learn how to play QB in this system. They're 2-5, they're not going to make the playoffs. Everyone can try to feed me this bs about being 2.5 games back of Philly. Well, the Skins have yet to win 3 games this season against a few mediocre teams so far. So, what makes everyone think they'd somehow make up 3 games against Philly? Cause they play them twice? Well, the d stops no one and the O doesn't put points on the board...that doesn't translate to many wins. I'm not saying that it is all on Mark Brunell. However, he's the only change that can be made. You can't replace 11 guys on defense. You're not gonna find replacements for everyone playing poorly on defense. You can replace the quarterback, if for nothing else, just ot let the kid learn how to play in the NFL. That's what's important now, getting Campbell ready to play. Leaving Mark in is just stupid. Now, to absolve Mark Brunell from blame is wrong. I don't understand how anyone can watch that game and think "if they stretched the field they wouldn't be a better team." The defense is bad, so you have to put up points to win. Does anyone ever see a defense's win-loss record? No, but guess what you do see...a quarterback's win-loss record. Mark Brunell's with the Skins? 16-21. That's bad. If he were young I'd say he's developing, but he's old, so he's regressing. There is no reason to leave him in. They could have gone 2-5 with Campbell. And Brunell didn't show me anything that Campbell couldn't have done yesterday. I don't watch Brunell and even think that I can't make the throws he's making. It's embarassing. Tom Jackson regularly references "the eye test." That's his football eye, Mark Brunell doesn't pass that. Hell, Aikman (a pretty damn good qb in his day) was wondering aloud why Brunell kept checking the damn ball down. So, I would say that's someone around the league that doesn't think he's getting the job done. Oh, and Shannon Sharpe called him out last week. He doesn't think he's getting it done either. To the question as to what I would think if Campbell came in and did the same thing? I'd blame the coaches. However, I don't believe that Saunders' offense is all checkdowns and screens. I refuse to believe it. Maybe they'd put Jason in and leave the training wheels on for a while so they would be short passes, but I'll be really disappointed. If this is the offense, there's something wrong. I'd say heads should roll, but that doesn't usually help build stability (not the Skins strong point recently). However, I think Gibbs is smart enough to know that you can't win in the NFL throwing that many short passes.

10-23-2006, 04:27 PM	#155
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 63 Posts: 10,672	Re: It's not Brunell's fault! maybe thats the reason the guy cant get a head coaching job. not ready to accept any responsibility for anything. i guess that 700 page playbook is second only to the bible __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

10-23-2006, 04:43 PM	#156
redsk1 The Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,351	Re: It's not Brunell's fault! Last time i checked Saunders system worked pretty good other places. The other places had the right qb though.

10-23-2006, 05:55 PM	#160
0421kidwell Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: MANCHESTER MARYLAND Posts: 68	Re: It's not Brunell's fault! The Hell It's Not Screw Brunell And Gibbs Old People Don't Win Superbowl's Especailly At The Qb Position, Unless Your Name In Bret Favre And Mark Is Not Favre

10-23-2006, 05:56 PM	#161
0421kidwell Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: MANCHESTER MARYLAND Posts: 68	Re: It's not Brunell's fault! Brunell Cannot Throw The Ball More Than 10 Yards!!! Dallas Will Destroy Us!!

It's not Brunell's fault!

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