Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Just one small example. I guess he does not count the thousands and thousands of jobs it takes to build and support a rich mans toys.



The rich do not create all the jobs but they sure do create a punch of jobs.

Now let me address this crap that is constantly spewed. Oh, if the rich people didn't buy all these high priced toys, there would be a lot of people out of a job. Really?

Northern Marine (yatch builder) This is their work force. Look at ALL those jobs...lol


Lazzaro Yatchs. 250 employees
Lazzara Yacht Corporation - Company Profile by Insideview


We can't even count Bentley, Lamborghini, Ferrari, or Lotus because they are all jobs overseas. Even then, they still employ very small numbers in the grand scheme of things.


So exactly where are all these jobs that are created by rich people buying these "toys" you speak of?


Let me ask you a question FD. Which would help the economy out more. Giving one person 1 billion dollars, or giving one million people 1,000 each? Which do you think would produce more spending?



Speaking of cars. I suggest you see how many cars are bought by the middle class and how many cars are bought by the rich elite.

Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Sorry the number is still the same in 2011.

TPC Tax Topics | Who Doesn't Pay Federal Taxes?

Did you even bother to find out who that 47% you keep talking about?

• More than half are elderly

• one-third are nonelderly with income under $20,000

• Only about 1 in 20 is nonelderly with income over $20,000

But...the rich elite (not say you are) keep pointing and saying LOOK THESE GUYS AREN"T PAYING TAXES!!

Yeah, let's tax a person who can't even afford to support themselves on less than 20k. That's very smart.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Now let me address this crap that is constantly spewed. Oh, if the rich people didn't buy all these high priced toys, there would be a lot of people out of a job. Really?

Northern Marine (yatch builder) This is their work force. Look at ALL those jobs...lol


Lazzaro Yatchs. 250 employees
Lazzara Yacht Corporation - Company Profile by Insideview


We can't even count Bentley, Lamborghini, Ferrari, or Lotus because they are all jobs overseas. Even then, they still employ very small numbers in the grand scheme of things.


So exactly where are all these jobs that are created by rich people buying these "toys" you speak of?


Let me ask you a question FD. Which would help the economy out more. Giving one person 1 billion dollars, or giving one million people 1,000 each? Which do you think would produce more spending?



Speaking of cars. I suggest you see how many cars are bought by the middle class and how many cars are bought by the rich elite.

Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com

That's pretty narrow minded thinking only 250 people build those boats. Who builds the motors, electronics, the interior stuff, like toilets, showers, pumps, fittings, etc, etc.... How much of the work is sub contractors and how many people do they employ. Also those are not new boats in that ship yard. Oh, who built that building, paved that surface, ran electrical, plumbing in that building.

I have only scratched the surface of the employees it takes to make those boats float down the river.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

That's pretty narrow minded thinking only 250 people build those boats. Who builds the motors, electronics, the interior stuff, like toilets, showers, pumps, fittings, etc, etc.... How much of the work is sub contractors and how many people do they employ. Also those are not new boats in that ship yard. Oh, who built that building, paved that surface, ran electrical, plumbing in that building.

I have only scratched the surface of the employees it takes to make those boats float down the river.

Yeah, and how many of these boats are made per year? Not many, which means the demand for those other parts are VERY low as well. So again, lets not act like the rich create a lot of jobs. They don't.

Also, you have still yet to answer my question, which no doubt you ignored on purpose.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Yeah, and how many of these boats are made per year? Not many, which means the demand for those other parts are VERY low as well. So again, lets not act like the rich create a lot of jobs. They don't.

Also, you have still yet to answer my question, which no doubt you ignored on purpose.

You have never owned a boat I can see. My point was not how many jobs the rich created with their toys it was that Nick Hanauer said the rich do not creat jobs and they do. As for your question I'd say probably giving the thousand to a million people but again your changing my original point I was making.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You have never owned a boat I can see. My point was not how many jobs the rich created with their toys it was that Nick Hanauer said the rich do not creat jobs and they do. As for your question I'd say probably giving the thousand to a million people but again your changing my original point I was making.

Then you are changing Hanauer's overall point that the rich don't really create jobs. Aside a few jobs here and there to make their "toys", they really don't create jack shit in the grand scheme of it all and you know this so stop spouting such garbage. The overall idea from the conservative crew is that if you give the rich people all the money, they'll create jobs. It hasn't worked since Regan fooled people into believing this and it'll NEVER work because they are keeping the money for themselves. Just so we are clear, you in fact agreed that the economy would be better spent by spreading that money around as opposed to letting one man horde it all.


Yes my family has owned boats and sailboats all of our lives. Skiing, fishing, scuba diving. I live right off the coast of NC bro. It's what we do.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Then you are changing Hanauer's overall point that the rich don't really create jobs. Aside a few jobs here and there to make their "toys", they really don't create jack shit in the grand scheme of it all and you know this so stop spouting such garbage. The overall idea from the conservative crew is that if you give the rich people all the money, they'll create jobs. It hasn't worked since Regan fooled people into believing this and it'll NEVER work because they are keeping the money for themselves. Just so we are clear, you in fact agreed that the economy would be better spent by spreading that money around as opposed to letting one man horde it all.


Yes my family has owned boats and sailboats all of our lives. Skiing, fishing, scuba diving. I live right off the coast of NC bro. It's what we do.

So you want socialism? So my rich friend (your words) with 89 employess does not create jobs? My buddy who owns a orthopaedic physical therapy and sports medicine business with around 25 employees does not create jobs? Thanks I'll let them know.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So you want socialism? So my rich friend (your words) with 89 employess does not create jobs? My buddy who owns a orthopaedic physical therapy and sports medicine business with around 25 employees does not create jobs? Thanks I'll let them know.

No, I don't socialism, but I don't want very few people owning all the wealth, which is exactly what is happening.


Your buddy doesn't employee those people by himself and for himself. His business employees those people. Does he take all that money he gets with his tax breaks and hire people to do random stuff or create extra jobs with the money he's saving? I seriously doubt he does.


Also, unless your "rich friend" is worth hundreds of millions of dollars, he's probably not in the category we are talking about.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

No, I don't socialism, but I don't want very few people owning all the wealth, which is exactly what is happening.


Your buddy doesn't employee those people by himself and for himself. His business employees those people. Does he take all that money he gets with his tax breaks and hire people to do random stuff or create extra jobs with the money he's saving? I seriously doubt he does.


Also, unless your "rich friend" is worth hundreds of millions of dollars, he's probably not in the category we are talking about.

In both cases they are the business and without them there would not be a business. I know the friend with 89 employees takes a bunch of money every year and puts it back into his business so he has capital to grow and hire new employees. We are really picking at things to prove a point. All of us, the rich, middle class, and the poor creat jobs in one way or the other and its time we quit playing the class card against one another. I'll agree that the rich probaly would not be rich without the spending of the middle class and the poor but on the same hand alot of the poor and middle class would not have jobs without the rich creating them. Last time I checked we all depend on one another in some shape or form.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

In both cases they are the business and without them there would not be a business. I know the friend with 89 employees takes a bunch of money every year and puts it back into his business so he has capital to grow and hire new employees. We are really picking at things to prove a point. All of us, the rich, middle class, and the poor creat jobs in one way or the other and its time we quit playing the class card against one another. I'll agree that the rich probaly would not be rich without the spending of the middle class and the poor but on the same hand alot of the poor and middle class would not have jobs without the rich creating them. Last time I checked we all depend on one another in some shape or form.

Well, I think we are talking about two different things. You are talking about stuff that really is "small business" related. I don't think people have a problem with small businesses. I think it has more to do with the big corporations. Should the Walton family continue to rake in billions or help raise the quality of life for their employees, which in turn would also enable them to spend more (gasp even at walmart).

You are arguing semantics. His claim about rich not creating jobs isn't to be taking literal that not a single job was created. It's talking about the big picture of things, the over all job market. It's been proven that giving rich people more money doesn't help out the economy in any shape form or fashion. The numbers and graphs prove that. In fact, the economy has always done better when the rich were taxed heavily.

Also, we can't stop playing the class card because there is definitely a class warfare. Rich are trying to get richer and keep their power hold on the government. The poor and middle class are scrapping to stay alive. Eventually one of two things will happen. The rich will win and the public will riot and revolt. The rich will be put back into line and things will balance back out. The pure fact remains that we can't continue down this course we are going.


Big Paychecks, Tiny Tax Burdens: How 21,000 Wealthy Americans Avoided Paying Income Tax - Yahoo! News

[firstdown]

That article does nothing to explain how 21,000 did pay taxes in that year. You going to use that crap of an article to prove a point. They talked about one person changing the form of corp they are and then gave a few general tax deduction someone could use. I could have told you that basic stuff. Even the one person who they said paid no taxes one year had paid 10 million sense 2005. Thats just lazy and poor journalism.

[firstdown]

In other news even Bill Clinton thinks we need to keep the taxe rates as they are.


By Tom Curry, msnbc.com National Affairs Writer
Former president Bill Clinton roiled the presidential campaign Tuesday with comments in an interview with CNBC’s Maria Bartiromo in which he called for continuing all the current income tax rates into early 2013, as opposed to President Obama who wants income tax rates on higher-income people to go up at the start of 2013. Clinton also said the economy is still in a recession.

It was the second time in a week that Clinton had appeared to go “off message” from the Obama campaign and to put distance between himself and the president. In comments on CNN last week, Clinton defended GOP presidential contender Mitt Romney’s role as head of Bain Capital, praising Romney as a man who “had a sterling business career.”

[dmek25]

how do you think Clinton got re elected? not by appeasing the poor