A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

[CultBrennan59]

More play action will be used with Griffin. Also more passing and less running will be used. Its going to be F'n fantastic to watch this year, because the defense is going to be like "Rookie QB who can run," then they'll put 8 in the box on Griffin. He'll do play action. The OLB or DE will have containment duties on playaction where he has to get the QB, or the TE who frees off his block (Davis or Cooley). That will be great because what do you do? Do you go and attempt to go after the Olympic speed QB and either not get him or let the Pro Bowl caliber TE go by you for an easy catch and gain? Or do you cover the TE and watch the QB blaze right by you? Expect a lot of rushing yards, and big seasons out of the TE's. Oh and we have a blazing fast WR now in Pierre Garcon, to get the deep balls RG3 so beautifully places.

[imaskin4life]

30gut.

I think we should run the same offense we ran last year and add SOME spread. We should NOT throw out the whole playbook and install ALL spread. Spread is good and we should add some but not ALL. We should still have a running attack and run playaction as well just like last year. If we were to install ALL spread it would be better to bring in a new regime that runs spread offense as their specialty.

If an offensive coordinator has no experience running a certain scheme then he is an amatuer with that scheme period. If Kyle knows spread then he's not an amatuer with spread. If he doesn't then he is an amateur (compared to a profressional who knows it.)

If a regime throws out the old playbook and adopts a brand new one that they are not familiar with then not only are they amatuers then they are also supressing their own talents and skills (even if it is an attempt to highlight the talent on the field). It is definitely good to use your talent on the field. But not to the degree where you stop doing what YOU know and what you are good at in exchange for what you think your talent is good at. In other words I think it is a mistake to COMPLETELY throw out the old playbook in exchange for a new one that you are not as experienced with.

If you think this is a good idea then I think you do a disservice to NFL defensive coordinators to think an offensive coordinator can run a foreign system effectively against a DC that is accustomed to stopping it. I'm NOT talking about adapting on the fly--I'm talking about changing the whole philosophy, scheme, gameplan as being a bad idea if it is not who and what we know how to do now.

I prefer the core of the offense to be a function of the play action. Yes, we should add some spread but I prefer that the bulk of our offense be what is was last year - a function of the playaction mostly because this is who our offensive coordinator is right now and partly because I like having the option of a solid running game and misdirection with the playaction.

Our offense should be a function of both the coaching staff's talents AND our players' talents, not just the players' talents. That is how loaded teams get upset and average teams beat loaded ones.

[REDSKINS4ever]

At times, the Redskins offensive coaches should incorporate plays that will take advantage of Griffin III's running ability. While we don't want RG3 banged up too much, running bootleg plays, the wishbone offense, option plays, and having RG3 in the wildcat formation would be a nice idea. Does anybody remember when Brandon Banks was in the wildcat during the game against Minnesota at Fed EX Field in 2010? If anyone remembers the Carolina vs Redskins game last year, the Panthers took advantage of Cam Newton's ability to run with the football by calling option plays.

[SBXVII]

I think

1- everyone is saying RG3 fits our scheme so there should not be a whole lot of changes.

2- one media source I was listening to mentioned that with Garçon, AA, Moss, and Gaffney because of the speed and RG3 we should be able to add a little spread offense wrinkle.

3- MS and KS just don't seem the type to change what their doing for their QBs sake, ie; McNabb, Beck. I think they will keep the offense the same but use RG3's speed with a lot more roll outs and bootlegs. That should open up the down field shots since the defense will have to put one guy to shadow RG3.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I think

1- everyone is saying RG3 fits our scheme so there should not be a whole lot of changes.

2- one media source I was listening to mentioned that with Garçon, AA, Moss, and Gaffney because of the speed and RG3 we should be able to add a little spread offense wrinkle.

3- MS and KS just don't seem the type to change what their doing for their QBs sake, ie; McNabb, Beck. I think they will keep the offense the same but use RG3's speed with a lot more roll outs and bootlegs. That should open up the down field shots since the defense will have to put one guy to shadow RG3.

This is the biggest misconception of the Shanahans that is perpetuated by fans and talking heads that don't know what they are talking about.

Quick history lesson on Mike Shanahan's history with QB.
John Elway-strengths were rolling out, athleticism, making plays on the move
Brian Greise-strengths (loosely used term) were dropping back, pocket passer
Jake Plummer-strengths were rolling out, play action, deep throwbacks
Jay Cutler-strenghts were setting up in shotgun, reading pre snap, pocket passer

Each time he had a different QB, he adapted his offense to meet their strengths and had success with all of them. So what's happened in DC? He got a QB whose strengths (deep ball, mobility, creating plays outside the scope of the offense) were no longer strengths in McNabb and a QB whose strengths (again, loosely used term) are as a pocket passer executing the offense in a precise manner who sabotages his own success by poor decision making and ball security issues in Grossman. In the 3 game Beckoning, we saw a slightly different offense, more boots, more rollouts than we saw with Grossman. The biggest issue is none of them have been any good. Adaptability of the offense or a willingness to 'change' the offense is not an issue, it's talk radio show fodder.

To the question from the OP, I think it will be a new look for us because we will see more boots, more designed rollouts, more spread concepts but the core of the offense will be the same but better.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

This is the biggest misconception of the Shanahans that is perpetuated by fans and talking heads that don't know what they are talking about.

Quick history lesson on Mike Shanahan's history with QB.
John Elway-strengths were rolling out, athleticism, making plays on the move
Brian Greise-strengths (loosely used term) were dropping back, pocket passer
Jake Plummer-strengths were rolling out, play action, deep throwbacks
Jay Cutler-strenghts were setting up in shotgun, reading pre snap, pocket passer

Each time he had a different QB, he adapted his offense to meet their strengths and had success with all of them. So what's happened in DC? He got a QB whose strengths (deep ball, mobility, creating plays outside the scope of the offense) were no longer strengths in McNabb and a QB whose strengths (again, loosely used term) are as a pocket passer executing the offense in a precise manner who sabotages his own success by poor decision making and ball security issues in Grossman. In the 3 game Beckoning, we saw a slightly different offense, more boots, more rollouts than we saw with Grossman. The biggest issue is none of them have been any good. Adaptability of the offense or a willingness to 'change' the offense is not an issue, it's talk radio show fodder.

To the question from the OP, I think it will be a new look for us because we will see more boots, more designed rollouts, more spread concepts but the core of the offense will be the same but better.

Bruce Allen was on Moving The Chains today, and Pat Kirwan hit on some of these same basic points when talking about how Shanahan has changed up his scheme to fit different QBs over the years.

SiriusXM NFL Radio | Facebook

There's a link to a clip from the interview on NFL Radio's FB page

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

3- MS and KS just don't seem the type to change what their doing for their QBs sake, ie; McNabb, Beck. I think they will keep the offense the same but use RG3's speed with a lot more roll outs and bootlegs. That should open up the down field shots since the defense will have to put one guy to shadow RG3.

Why do people keep saying crap like this when history shows otherwise? They've adapted their system to each QB they've had in the system.

Plummer, Griese, Cutler, Grossman, McNabb, and Beck.


I mean, didn't you notice we did very little roll out with Rex at the helm, but as soon as Beck came in, we started bootlegging a bit? Come on man, keep up.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Why do people keep saying crap like this when history shows otherwise? They've adapted their system to each QB they've had in the system.

Plummer, Griese, Cutler, Grossman, McNabb, and Beck.


I mean, didn't you notice we did very little roll out with Rex at the helm, but as soon as Beck came in, we started bootlegging a bit? Come on man, keep up.

You can kinda tell people who actually are football fans and those who are talk radio fans, can't you?

[NC_Skins]

Former Shanahan coordinator says RG3 "is going to fit perfect" with Redskins - Washington Times

“Mike likes to run the ball – everything starts with the run – and likes to move his quarterback,” Kubiak said at the AFC coaches’ breakfast here Tuesday. “I don’t know that I’ve seen one move like this guy in a while. He’s very smart. This guy is going to fit perfect with what they want to do – if they take him, of course.”

I think the kid is going to be excellent here. Hopefully he has a lot of luck(no pun) on his side in regards to injuries.

[30gut]

Former Shanahan coordinator says RG3 "is going to fit perfect" with Redskins - Washington Times

Originally Posted by Gary Kubiak

“Mike likes to run the ball – everything starts with the run – and likes to move his quarterback,”...“I don’t know that I’ve seen one move like this guy in a while. He’s very smart. This guy is going to fit perfect with what they want to do – if they take him, of course.”

He expects Mike and Kyle to tweak their offense to suit Griffin’s athleticism, similarly to how he and Mike adjusted when quarterback Jake Plummer joined the Broncos in 2003. That could mean adding elements of the zone-read running game in which Griffin excelled at Baylor.

“I worked for Mike all those years, and whatever we have, we’re going to find a way to make him successful,” Kubiak said. “Mike is very capable of being flexible and doing what a player does best. I’m sure if he ends up taking him, he’s going to study that portion of the offense he has run.”

Kubiak interview with Campbell seems to fit these scenario's:

Originally Posted by 30gut

o the core offense/formations will remain unchanged but the playcalling balance will return and the offense will look more like Houston and the traditional Mike S. Denver WCO with a heavy focus on stretch running and boot-action passing?

o the offense formations will change and our offense will adopt and feature some of Baylor's formations and concepts, like they way the Panthers added some of Auburns formations, plays and concepts?

Kubiak's 1st sentence struck me though: "Mike likes to run the ball – everything starts with the run –"

I wonder why he chose to mention Mike as opposed to Kyle?
Because if you look at the playcalling tendecies between Mike and Kyle, especially pass/run ratio, Kyle doesn't share Mike's run focus.


I love Kubiak's last sentence because it kinda opens the door to the possibility of more spread elements and maybe even some zone-read.

It also naturally leads to this question:

What specifically (formation/play concepts) does Griffin do best from Baylor's offense?

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Former Shanahan coordinator says RG3 "is going to fit perfect" with Redskins - Washington Times

Kubiak's 1st sentence struck: "Mike likes to run the ball – everything starts with the run –"

I wonder why he chose to mention Mike as opposed to Kyle?
Because if you look at the playcalling tendecies between Mike and Kyle, especially pass/run ratio, Kyle doesn't share Mike's run focus.

I love Kubiak's last sentence because it kinda opens the door to the possibility of more spread elements and maybe even some zone-read.

It also naturally leads to this question:

What specifically (formation/play concepts) does Griffin do best from Baylor's offense?

Either it was the way the question was asked or Kubiak identifies more with the Elder Shanahan as a fellow head coach and colleague.

Or secret option C he resents Kyle

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Either it was the way the question was asked or Kubiak identifies more with the Elder Shanahan as a fellow head coach and colleague.

Or secret option C he resents Kyle

Kubiak isn't the only one to mention Mike when refering to the offense.
But when people mention Mike as opposed to Kyle it creates a false assumption about the offense.
The assumption is that because Mike like to run the ball that the Redskins are a run oriented offense when in reality the opposite is true.
Under Kyle the Redskins have been a passing team.

[NC_Skins]

Rick Maese ‏ @RickMaese

McNabb says on ESPN RGIII is not a good fit for Redskins. Says ego will get in way. "Are you going to cater the offense around his talent?"

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Rick Maese ‏ @RickMaese

Skip Bayless asked McNabb if he simply has an ax to grind. "I do but I don't"

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Rick Maese ‏ @RickMaese

McNabb says he was misused here and thinks Skins could similarly misuse RGIII: "You have to be in a system that caters to your ability"

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Rick Maese ‏ @RickMaese

It was weird when McNabb was going down list of post-Elway QBs who didnt thrive under Shanahan, he omitted his own name


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Why can't this assclown just go away? He's shitty, and nobody wants him and yet he's blaming everybody else for his lack of skill/effort he displayed in football the past few years. **** YOU MCNUGGET

[skinsguy]

Plain and simple, I just want to see the 'skins score 30+ points a ball game.

[los panda]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Plain and simple, I just want to see the 'skins score 30+ points a ball game.

how nice would that be