Does character count?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I agree with both of you (if that's possible). I agree that people do stupid things when they're young. Taylor hasn't started off problem-free yet.

However, I agree with Schneed in the fact that you ARE held to a higher-standard when people are paying your million dollar salary.

I wouldn't want my politicians (just an example, I hate politicians) getting wasted every weekend or doing equally stupid actions that affect what WE pay them to do.

On the subject of character, I agree with Daseal that what he did doesn't make him a bad person. It's just like he is a patron son of Cleveland and that they should be disappointed in him, but not disown him.

Yeah I think you sum it up well, MC. I don't mean to say that Kellen Winslow can't be forgiven. He made a dumbass decision with the bike riding. But if I were a fan of the Cleveland Browns, I'd love him if he came back and worked hard when he was healthy next time, and stayed off the motorbikes. If you learn from your mistakes and bad decisions, and do your best to make things right, I can forgive anyone.

In the same vein, I'm irked at Sean Taylor right now for not being at workouts. I think he should be there. But if he comes to camp in shape, works hard in training camp, stays humble, and lays some wood on the Dallas Cowboys this year, I not only won't have a beef with him anymore, but he'll be my friggin hero.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah I think you sum it up well, MC. I don't mean to say that Kellen Winslow can't be forgiven. He made a dumbass decision with the bike riding. But if I were a fan of the Cleveland Browns, I'd love him if he came back and worked hard when he was healthy next time, and stayed off the motorbikes. If you learn from your mistakes and bad decisions, and do your best to make things right, I can forgive anyone.

In the same vein, I'm irked at Sean Taylor right now for not being at workouts. I think he should be there. But if he comes to camp in shape, works hard in training camp, stays humble, and lays some wood on the Dallas Cowboys this year, I not only won't have a beef with him anymore, but he'll be my friggin hero.

Definitely. On that subject, Taylor BETTER show up to mandatory camps because it's not like they can even DO anything about his contract until August 1st anyway.

[Hijinx]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Definitely. On that subject, Taylor BETTER show up to mandatory camps because it's not like they can even DO anything about his contract until August 1st anyway.

When is the first mandatory camp for the Skins anyway?

Personally if I were the Eagle front office I'd start laying out the fines on TO and activate the no show clause in his contract. Its one thing to not show up for voluntary minicamps but not showing up for mandatory camps is another thing.

[skin4Life28]

I just don't flat out understand all the haters for players like TO. Sure they are out for themselves and do things many just don't like. All of them have one quality that we can say we haven't had in awhile. That is that they win. Moss, R. Williams, T.O. they were always on a winning team and made there team better. Players like that are few and far between anything you will see. They are gamebreakers and are at the top of the league every year. They make people on the team better. Love em' or hate em', but you better resepct them cause odds are there gonna get theres. I am one of the few if not only one who has no problem with T.O. he is an amazing player and he can do whatever he wants in my opinion. As for KWII, so what he called out the redskins cause we didn't draft him. People here are way to uptight over this guy. Players have been calling out teams for years and years. Like Aaron Rodgeers calling out the Niners. It will always happen and will continue. I can't judge him cause he has only played like 1 and 3 quarters in his career. I'm sure I'll get some great replies. I know I am new school and a lot of ol' schoolers don't agree with it, but oh well.

[Riggo44]

Originally Posted by skin4Life28

I just don't flat out understand all the haters for players like TO. Sure they are out for themselves and do things many just don't like. All of them have one quality that we can say we haven't had in awhile. That is that they win. Moss, R. Williams, T.O. they were always on a winning team They make people on the team better. Love em' or hate em', but you better resepct them cause odds are there gonna get theres. I know I am new school and a lot of ol' schoolers don't agree with it, but oh well.

The 49ers had some winning teams with T.O? Yea right, they sucked! And I don't remember the Saints or Dolphins being that great with R.Williams. What has Randy Moss done for the Vikings? Besides putting up #'s that make him look good?I think the Vikings got to one NFC championship game with Randy. And that was in his rookie year with Cris Carter mentoring him. Once it was his team the Vikings sucked in big games.
You can have your new school me me players. I will take the blue colar not so flashy hard working team player any day of the week.

[Hog1]

According to Dan Patrick, a few minutes ago, there is reasonable possibility that KW2 is done for the year with a torn ACL

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I don't think that anyone disagrees that Moss and TO are great players. I DO think that they are cancer to an organization and over-all shitheads. Yes, the respective teams they have been on HAVE been winners. Haven't the Eagles made it to the NFC championship the past 3-4 years without him? I also don't recall the 49ers being Super Bowl contenders while he was there.

Minnesota became good all at once and I'm sure a lot of it can be attributed to Randy Moss, BUT I think it's a little too early to say that he was the only playmaker Minnesota had. We'll see how the Vikes do this year and then that decision can be made...

However, having a good team around you is what makes you a good team. You can have players like TO and Randy and they give you that added depth. They aren't simply the only reason that a team is good or great.

A lot of people will argue that TO put the Eagles over the hump this year. I disagree. They've been winning the NFC East for years now and they still made it over the metaphoric hump (NFC Championship game) without the help of TO. It wasn't even the offense that was essential to that game. The defense is who shut down Michael Vick.

In the end, teams don't NEED a TO or Randy Moss. There are plenty of bonafied playmakers out there who are classy enough and don't cause dissention among the ranks.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I don't think that anyone disagrees that Moss and TO are great players. I DO think that they are cancer to an organization and over-all shitheads. Yes, the respective teams they have been on HAVE been winners. Haven't the Eagles made it to the NFC championship the past 3-4 years without him? I also don't recall the 49ers being Super Bowl contenders while he was there.

Minnesota became good all at once and I'm sure a lot of it can be attributed to Randy Moss, BUT I think it's a little too early to say that he was the only playmaker Minnesota had. We'll see how the Vikes do this year and then that decision can be made...

However, having a good team around you is what makes you a good team. You can have players like TO and Randy and they give you that added depth. They aren't simply the only reason that a team is good or great.

A lot of people will argue that TO put the Eagles over the hump this year. I disagree. They've been winning the NFC East for years now and they still made it over the metaphoric hump (NFC Championship game) without the help of TO. It wasn't even the offense that was essential to that game. The defense is who shut down Michael Vick.

In the end, teams don't NEED a TO or Randy Moss. There are plenty of bonafied playmakers out there who are classy enough and don't cause dissention among the ranks.

Great post, every word of it. A lot of times the guys who act selflessly don't find themselves in the spotlight, because they're not out promoting themselves and demanding more passes thrown to them. I think David Patten can be pretty big for us, NE just had too many receivers up there, and he knew it. He just kept quiet and kept working hard, doing what he could to win. He's the kind of guy I can really really root for, class act all the way.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I don't think that anyone disagrees that Moss and TO are great players. I DO think that they are cancer to an organization and over-all shitheads. Yes, the respective teams they have been on HAVE been winners. Haven't the Eagles made it to the NFC championship the past 3-4 years without him? I also don't recall the 49ers being Super Bowl contenders while he was there.

Minnesota became good all at once and I'm sure a lot of it can be attributed to Randy Moss, BUT I think it's a little too early to say that he was the only playmaker Minnesota had. We'll see how the Vikes do this year and then that decision can be made...

However, having a good team around you is what makes you a good team. You can have players like TO and Randy and they give you that added depth. They aren't simply the only reason that a team is good or great.

A lot of people will argue that TO put the Eagles over the hump this year. I disagree. They've been winning the NFC East for years now and they still made it over the metaphoric hump (NFC Championship game) without the help of TO. It wasn't even the offense that was essential to that game. The defense is who shut down Michael Vick.

In the end, teams don't NEED a TO or Randy Moss. There are plenty of bonafied playmakers out there who are classy enough and don't cause dissention among the ranks.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Excellent points.

How many rings do T.O. and Moss have? How valuable have they really been to their teams? I don't see it. And I'm sorry, but I don't think it's a coincidence that a team like the Patriots has won three of the last four Superbowls with teams that have never included a player like TO or Moss.

[Grayacre]

I guess I'm old school because I fail to see how being a great player on the field and at least a respectable person off of the field are mutually exclusive. To my weary old brain, it seems like players who do both (i.e. perform on the field and conduct themselves with some dignity elsewhere) should be the rule and not the exception.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

If any of you listened to that radio address with Moss, he made it pretty apparent it was ALL Rosenhaus who suggested he hold out.

[diehardskin2982]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

If any of you listened to that radio address with Moss, he made it pretty apparent it was ALL Rosenhaus who suggested he hold out.

Thankyou for saying that. Its the agents who convince players to not go to voluntary workouts and stuff. I think Rosenhaus is doing the same thing with Taylor as well. The league has to put a stop to the amount of contol that agents have in this league

Randy Moss will be great for the raiders and he won't have as many problems as what he did with the vikes. The media tends to blow things way out of perportion. Talent is talent so, I'd take a moss over patten any day. Sometimes you need a dick on the team.

[skin4Life28]

Last time i checked in T.O.'s time there he missed the playoffs twice. So thats not to bad since we have only been there once in like 10 years.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

http://www1.collegehumor.com/?movie_id=144539

Just had to throw this in here... Looks like SKINZ_DOMIN8 made the news!

[mooby]

lol that was a funny ass video.