Can We Bench Brunell Now

SmootSmack · 10-17-2006, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Fire Plug. Old nick name. Retarded one too but it became my online persona.

The story of FRPLG

illdefined · 10-16-2006, 01:24 PM

sorry if i missed all this before, but was there any talk here about how Brunell was getting shut down by the ol' vanilla Cover-2? and how Santana Moss himself said that that wasn't a real coverage and he could play cornerback himself phenomonally in it?

how US AT THE WARPATH, we're saying the exact same thing BEFORE the Washington Post and Moss chimed in, and we all know our football from a frickin videogame??

how was that not a diss on Brunell by Moss? how was that gameplan vs. the Titans not DON'T RELY ON BRUNELL? now *everyone* knows Brunell's limitations, and not just the other teams defenses. in their ever-so-exotic, made-to-stop-Brunell, anyone-can-do-it, Cover-2.

those dinky passes most of the game were to bypass Brunell and just get the ball to Moss even if it was behind the line of schrimmage. the 2, 3 times he heaved it, you could hear the bones creak.

that one pass to Cooley was a beauty though. Cooley's the only reciever big enough to hit, and slow enough to not run too far for Brunell to throw to in the middle of the field.

yes, the whole team is suffering. when that happens, you look at the QB to be the leader of the team in crisis, not the easily exploited weak point.

FRPLG · 10-16-2006, 01:34 PM

I'd like to know exactly why some people are convinced Brunell gives us the best chance to win in any given week? To me he has proven that he cannot be counted to do the things he needs to do for us to win. Namely, make good decisions and throw accurate short passes. I have totally fallen off his band-wagon and I am not an idito homer fan who yells about the QB. He simply has shown me enough that I can't imagine Campbell doing worse. In fact I think Campbell would have a chance to do better since he still has physical skills to fall back on in absense of quality decision making.

FRPLG · 10-16-2006, 01:45 PM

The play calling was atrocious but let's be honest. We didn't execute the plays that were called. It is not like we were playing some great pass defense that was also a terrible run defense. They were terrible at run D and barely passable as a pass D. We should have pounded it but we also should have been able to execute a passing offense too pretty successfully.

bigm29 · 10-16-2006, 02:07 PM

Im a Brunell defender and even i say start Campbell

JWsleep · 10-16-2006, 02:24 PM

Ahhh. thanks. "Fur plug" is pretty cool, too, especially given the cool Portis avatar you're sporting these days.

steveo395 · 10-16-2006, 06:01 PM

I was at the game, Brunell had open guys deep all game. Lloyd could have caught about 3 deep balls. Thrash was open deep over the middle about 3 times. They literally didn't even cover him. Cooley was open deep over the middle once or twice. Brunell doesn't even look downfield. He is too afraid to throw the ball, especially if it is over the middle. There is no way that we could do any worse with Campbell.

Even if Brunell does do good next week, it doesn't matter. He is too inconsistent to be effective. He'll have 2 or 3 bad games for every good game he has. Then each good game lets him keep his job for those bad games. I don't see how anyone can say that we could do any worse with Campbell. At least Campbell will get better.

I know the defense is a problem too, but that is not what this thread is about and Brunell is playing terribly.

Beemnseven · 10-16-2006, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveo395

I was at the game, Brunell had open guys deep all game. Lloyd could have caught about 3 deep balls. Thrash was open deep over the middle about 3 times. They literally didn't even cover him. Cooley was open deep over the middle once or twice. Brunell doesn't even look downfield. He is too afraid to throw the ball, especially if it is over the middle. There is no way that we could do any worse with Campbell.

That's what I've been wondering. Watching on TV, you cannot see if the receivers are getting separation. If they can get open, does Brunell not see it? Does he feel he doesn't have enough time to get the ball there because of pressure from the D-line?

Brunell wasn't really harassed by the Titans pass rush. There were a few roll-outs, but that's about it.

For all the lock-step Brunell defenders, I keep asking these questions: Is the O-line playing horribly, so much so that Brunell has no chance to find the open receiver? When the team commits to the run, are they having problems running? Did Moss, Randle El, Cooley and Lloyd suddenly forget how to separate from their defenders? If not, then what's the common denominator here?

GTripp0012 · 10-16-2006, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

For all the lock-step Brunell defenders, I keep asking these questions: Is the O-line playing horribly, so much so that Brunell has no chance to find the open receiver? When the team commits to the run, are they having problems running? Did Moss, Randle El, Cooley and Lloyd suddenly forget how to separate from their defenders? If not, then what's the common denominator here?

Although, I'm hardly a lock-step Brunell defender, I pretty much take the role of one on a board so damn quick to heap blame on the guy.

Is the OLine playing horribly? No. When the team commits to the run, are they having problems running? No. Did Moss, Randle El, Cooley, and Lloyd suddenly forget how to seperate from their defenders? It seems like it sometimes, but I don't think this is the case.

So what's the common denominator? Well, outside of simply philosophy transition issues we are having (Gibbs to Saunders) that are costing us in crucial situations, I'd say...get ready to be blown away...

THERE REALLY ISN'T AN OFFENSIVE PROBLEM!

Where did you honestly expect this offense to rank preseason? Going into this week, we were the 7th ranked offense by Football Outsider's DVOA statistic. 7/32. That's top quarter. By the same statistic, our D ranks 23. Could we be higher than 7th with Peyton instead of Brunell? Probably. But I mean, c'mon. Did you really, really expect our offense to be top 3 this season simply because we added some different WRs? I didn't. Now ask yourself this one. Did you expect the D to be in the top 10? How about top 20? top 25?

I'm not picking on Beemnseven here. But as a whole, get real!

Remember, as bad as you think you have it with Mark Brunell, about 15 teams have worse QB situations. (That's about half the league)

SmootSmack · 10-16-2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Although, I'm hardly a lock-step Brunell defender, I pretty much take the role of one on a board so damn quick to heap blame on the guy.

Is the OLine playing horribly? No. When the team commits to the run, are they having problems running? No. Did Moss, Randle El, Cooley, and Lloyd suddenly forget how to seperate from their defenders? It seems like it sometimes, but I don't think this is the case.

So what's the common denominator? Well, outside of simply philosophy transition issues we are having (Gibbs to Saunders) that are costing us in crucial situations, I'd say...get ready to be blown away...

THERE REALLY ISN'T AN OFFENSIVE PROBLEM!

Where did you honestly expect this offense to rank preseason? Going into this week, we were the 7th ranked offense by Football Outsider's DVOA statistic. 7/32. That's top quarter. By the same statistic, our D ranks 23. Could we be higher than 7th with Peyton instead of Brunell? Probably. But I mean, c'mon. Did you really, really expect our offense to be top 3 this season simply because we added some different WRs? I didn't. Now ask yourself this one. Did you expect the D to be in the top 10? How about top 20? top 25?

I'm not picking on Beemnseven here. But as a whole, get real!

Remember, as bad as you think you have it with Mark Brunell, about 15 teams have worse QB situations. (That's about half the league)

I agree that Brunell isn't the one problem. The question is would replacing him serve as a panacea (for lack of a better word) for the fans and the team. I mean, let's say you replace Brunell and Holdman with Campbell and Rocky. Rocky finishes with 2 sacks and a forced fumble that Vincent (who also has an INT in the game) picks ups and runs in for what proves to be the winning touchdown. Campbell meanwhile finishes 11-23 for 112 yards 0 TDs and 2 INTs. I'm sure most fans are going to look to starting JC as being the difference. Would the team react the same way? I'm inclined to say no, but who knows.

jsarno · 10-16-2006, 07:14 PM

Brunell IS A HUGE PROBLEM! For all you stat heads out there, if you take away his screen passes (at this point we may have broke the season record for screen passes already), and how would Brunell's passer rating / comp % be? I would wager HORRIBLE.
He is afraid to open up the field and throw it downfield, and when the time comes that he has to do it, well I refer you to the game ending int when the whole titans team was sitting there waiting.
So I say, since this season is pretty much a lost cause, might as well start Campbell.

On a side note, the defense is horrendous...what is Williams doing? Then again, when you get next to nothing for penetration, and cb's acting like they are afraid of the ball, can we really blame Williams?

Beemnseven · 10-16-2006, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

THERE REALLY ISN'T AN OFFENSIVE PROBLEM!

... Where did you honestly expect this offense to rank preseason? Did you really, really expect our offense to be top 3 this season simply because we added some different WRs? I didn't.

The only area where I see legitimate concern is consistency with the O-line. Sometimes they give Brunell plenty of time, other times, he's running for his life -- especially against Dallas and the Giants. I'd say 60 - 70% of the time (pure guess, no actual mathematics involved), the quarterback is getting adequate protection. Would that be a fair estimate?

And no, adding different wideouts wasn't supposed to turn us into the Colts, but I think there were reasonable expectations of gradual progress by Week 5. Instead, they're taking giant leaps backward. That leads me to the common denominator -- if they are getting open, and Brunell is getting adequate protection most of the time, then what's the problem? Add this in with the fact that when the team and coaches commit to it, they can run the ball when they want to assuming Portis is healthy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Now ask yourself this one. Did you expect the D to be in the top 10? How about top 20? top 25?

I'm not picking on Beemnseven here. But as a whole, get real!

Believe it or not, the tailspin we've seen from the defense doesn't surprise me. I think Williams has milked as much as he can from the group he's had since '04, and without any significant effort to maintain or add to it, i.e. help at DT, DE, and secondary, these results were bound to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Remember, as bad as you think you have it with Mark Brunell, about 15 teams have worse QB situations. (That's about half the league)

Maybe so. But we weren't supposed to be one of those 15 teams this year. We were supposed to build from last year's playoff run and take a serious shot at the Super Bowl. The fact that there are other bad teams out there with quarterback problems of their own doesn't help us.

Leadership and playmakers at the quarterback position is what separates winners from losers in football, college and pro.

Until things change, this team will be a loser in '06.

Maybe Next Year · 10-16-2006, 08:20 PM

Brunell is definitely a big problem, and probably the biggest one this year, but there has to be something wrong with the 2-million dollar man, Al Saunders. Either his "700+ page playbook" has about 680 pages of 5-yard passes, or he doesnt have the confidence, along with the rest of the Redskins fans, to be creative and tell Brunell to mix up his passes and throw deep. I say put in Campbell against Indy, and tell him not to be afraid to throw deep. He surely has the arm to do it, and what do you have to lose when our season is slowly slipping down the gutter. Even if Campbell over throws on some passes, throwing deep will make the defence actually respect the pass, and allow CP to break some good-sized runs for us.

railcon56 · 10-17-2006, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

That's what I've been wondering. Watching on TV, you cannot see if the receivers are getting separation. If they can get open, does Brunell not see it? Does he feel he doesn't have enough time to get the ball there because of pressure from the D-line?

Brunell wasn't really harassed by the Titans pass rush. There were a few roll-outs, but that's about it.

For all the lock-step Brunell defenders, I keep asking these questions: Is the O-line playing horribly, so much so that Brunell has no chance to find the open receiver? When the team commits to the run, are they having problems running? Did Moss, Randle El, Cooley and Lloyd suddenly forget how to separate from their defenders? If not, then what's the common denominator here?

I am loving this...been saying all this for 2 years...finally poeple are speaking up.... GOOD POST....

Daseal · 10-16-2006, 03:34 PM

Im sticking with Fur Plug.

View Poll Results: Is it time for Brunell to find his way to the bench?
Yes	89	81.65%
No	20	18.35%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

10-16-2006, 01:24 PM	#2
illdefined Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nyc Age: 49 Posts: 2,631	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now sorry if i missed all this before, but was there any talk here about how Brunell was getting shut down by the ol' vanilla Cover-2? and how Santana Moss himself said that that wasn't a real coverage and he could play cornerback himself phenomonally in it? how US AT THE WARPATH, we're saying the exact same thing BEFORE the Washington Post and Moss chimed in, and we all know our football from a frickin videogame?? how was that not a diss on Brunell by Moss? how was that gameplan vs. the Titans not DON'T RELY ON BRUNELL? now everyone knows Brunell's limitations, and not just the other teams defenses. in their ever-so-exotic, made-to-stop-Brunell, anyone-can-do-it, Cover-2. those dinky passes most of the game were to bypass Brunell and just get the ball to Moss even if it was behind the line of schrimmage. the 2, 3 times he heaved it, you could hear the bones creak. that one pass to Cooley was a beauty though. Cooley's the only reciever big enough to hit, and slow enough to not run too far for Brunell to throw to in the middle of the field. yes, the whole team is suffering. when that happens, you look at the QB to be the leader of the team in crisis, not the easily exploited weak point. __________________ a fan. not a cheerleader.

10-16-2006, 01:34 PM	#3
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 47 Posts: 10,164	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now I'd like to know exactly why some people are convinced Brunell gives us the best chance to win in any given week? To me he has proven that he cannot be counted to do the things he needs to do for us to win. Namely, make good decisions and throw accurate short passes. I have totally fallen off his band-wagon and I am not an idito homer fan who yells about the QB. He simply has shown me enough that I can't imagine Campbell doing worse. In fact I think Campbell would have a chance to do better since he still has physical skills to fall back on in absense of quality decision making.

10-16-2006, 01:45 PM	#4
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 47 Posts: 10,164	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now The play calling was atrocious but let's be honest. We didn't execute the plays that were called. It is not like we were playing some great pass defense that was also a terrible run defense. They were terrible at run D and barely passable as a pass D. We should have pounded it but we also should have been able to execute a passing offense too pretty successfully.

10-16-2006, 02:07 PM	#5
bigm29 Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mt. Laurel, NJ Age: 37 Posts: 353	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now Im a Brunell defender and even i say start Campbell __________________ Hail Redskins!!!

10-16-2006, 02:24 PM	#6
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 56 Posts: 4,719	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now Ahhh. thanks. "Fur plug" is pretty cool, too, especially given the cool Portis avatar you're sporting these days. __________________ Hail from Houston!

10-16-2006, 06:01 PM	#7
steveo395 The Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,674	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now I was at the game, Brunell had open guys deep all game. Lloyd could have caught about 3 deep balls. Thrash was open deep over the middle about 3 times. They literally didn't even cover him. Cooley was open deep over the middle once or twice. Brunell doesn't even look downfield. He is too afraid to throw the ball, especially if it is over the middle. There is no way that we could do any worse with Campbell. Even if Brunell does do good next week, it doesn't matter. He is too inconsistent to be effective. He'll have 2 or 3 bad games for every good game he has. Then each good game lets him keep his job for those bad games. I don't see how anyone can say that we could do any worse with Campbell. At least Campbell will get better. I know the defense is a problem too, but that is not what this thread is about and Brunell is playing terribly. __________________

10-16-2006, 07:14 PM	#11
jsarno Franchise Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 31 Spooner St. Age: 50 Posts: 9,534	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now Brunell IS A HUGE PROBLEM! For all you stat heads out there, if you take away his screen passes (at this point we may have broke the season record for screen passes already), and how would Brunell's passer rating / comp % be? I would wager HORRIBLE. He is afraid to open up the field and throw it downfield, and when the time comes that he has to do it, well I refer you to the game ending int when the whole titans team was sitting there waiting. So I say, since this season is pretty much a lost cause, might as well start Campbell. On a side note, the defense is horrendous...what is Williams doing? Then again, when you get next to nothing for penetration, and cb's acting like they are afraid of the ball, can we really blame Williams? __________________ Zoltan is ZESTY! - courtesy of joeredskin

10-16-2006, 08:20 PM	#13
Maybe Next Year Camp Scrub Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chichester, Pennsylvania Posts: 6	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now Brunell is definitely a big problem, and probably the biggest one this year, but there has to be something wrong with the 2-million dollar man, Al Saunders. Either his "700+ page playbook" has about 680 pages of 5-yard passes, or he doesnt have the confidence, along with the rest of the Redskins fans, to be creative and tell Brunell to mix up his passes and throw deep. I say put in Campbell against Indy, and tell him not to be afraid to throw deep. He surely has the arm to do it, and what do you have to lose when our season is slowly slipping down the gutter. Even if Campbell over throws on some passes, throwing deep will make the defence actually respect the pass, and allow CP to break some good-sized runs for us.

10-16-2006, 03:34 PM	#15
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now Im sticking with Fur Plug. __________________ Best. Player. Available.

Can We Bench Brunell Now

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