3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts

GridIron26 · 03-30-2018, 08:32 AM

2015 seems to be Allen's year; 2014 could be considered as a satisfactory year, depending on who you ask I suppose. I know few players drafted in 2014 went to different teams but I don't think it's entirely Allen's fault, teams overpaid for those players except for Breeland. Do you really want us to match other teams' offer for Long and Murphy? John Keim said we kept in touch with those players, which is a sign that we want to bring them back but obviously once the numbers Long and Murphy came up with are out of Redskins' range set based on their value, Redskins FO deemed it better to let them walk and draft replacements or sign FA players who are cheaper.

It is all about how Redskins value players and positions. Take Patriots as example; they traded away Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins, their top 2 LB pass rushers and both are considered as premier players in NFL. Obviously Belichick didn't think it is worth to spend lot of money on those LB so he traded them.

Schneed10 · 03-30-2018, 08:33 AM

I'd call it average drafting, personally, because the lack of a superstar outside of Scherff who really should have been one given where drafted. Reed has been a game changer but unfortunately can't stay healthy often enough.

But there are plenty of players here who can contribute and some contribute quite well. These were decent drafts but you have to be honest in recognizing there is no Richard Sherman in the 5th, etc.

Schneed10 · 03-30-2018, 08:36 AM

To emphasize my point, there are no All Pros here. Two players have made the Pro Bowl, Scherff and Reed.

GridIron26 · 03-30-2018, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

To emphasize my point, there are no All Pros here. Two players have made the Pro Bowl, Scherff and Reed.

Good point

GridIron26 · 03-30-2018, 08:38 AM

Also 2015 draft might would have appear to be much better if Jarrett didn't get injured?

CRedskinsRule · 03-30-2018, 09:46 AM

tl;dr It's easier to criticize our own teams drafting, but comparing to other teams, imo, shows that it was pretty damn good.

Here is Seattle's equivalent (I used them based on Schneed's Richard Sherman example)
2013
2 62 SEA Christine Michael RB (current Colts)
3 87 SEA Jordan Hill DT (current IR Lions)
4 123 SEA Chris Harper WR (out of league -OOL))
5 158 SEA Luke Willson TE (current Lions)
5 138 SEA Tharold Simon DB (OOL)
5 137 SEA Jesse Williams DT (OOL)
6 194 SEA Spencer Ware RB (current KC)
7 242 SEA Michael Bowie T (OOL)
7 241 SEA Jared Smith DT (OOL)
7 220 SEA Ryan Seymour G (OOL)

2014

2 64 SEA Justin Britt T Current SEA
2 45 SEA Paul Richardson WR Current WAS
4 132 SEA Kevin Pierre-Louis LB Current NYJ
4 123 SEA Kevin Norwood WR OOL
4 108 SEA Cassius Marsh DE current SF
5 172 SEA Jimmy Staten DT OOL
6 208 SEA Eric Pinkins DB OOL
6 199 SEA Garrett Scott OL OOL
7 227 SEA Kiero Small RB OOL

2015

2 63 SEA Frank Clark DE Current SEA
3 69 SEA Tyler Lockett WR Current SEA
4 134 SEA Mark Glowinski G Current IND
4 130 SEA Terry Poole G OOL
5 170 SEA Tye Smith CB Current TEN
6 214 SEA Kristjan Sokoli DT Current NYG
6 209 SEA Obum Gwacham DE Current NYJ
7 248 SEA Ryan Murphy DB Current NYJ

So their equivalent players on roster for those 3 years are:

3 on roster out of 27 picks (or for Jamf's 2 year note, 1 out of 17 picks for 2013-2014)

Tyler Lockett strikes me as their main standout
13 of 27, or just under 50% are out of the league

All 3 years they traded their first round picks (none of the resulting players are on their team -- Percy Harvin, Jimmy Graham, Kyle Van Noy, Cassius Marsh

Interestingly Paul Richardson was picked 2 spots ahead of Trent Murphy both moved on because the drafting team didn't want to keep them

jamf · 03-30-2018, 11:33 AM

These bad drafts are part of the reason why they have been on the decline.

Seattle built their Super Bowl teams from picks after the second round who became pro bowlers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

tl;dr It's easier to criticize our own teams drafting, but comparing to other teams, imo, shows that it was pretty damn good.

Here is Seattle's equivalent (I used them based on Schneed's Richard Sherman example)
2013
2 62 SEA Christine Michael RB (current Colts)
3 87 SEA Jordan Hill DT (current IR Lions)
4 123 SEA Chris Harper WR (out of league -OOL))
5 158 SEA Luke Willson TE (current Lions)
5 138 SEA Tharold Simon DB (OOL)
5 137 SEA Jesse Williams DT (OOL)
6 194 SEA Spencer Ware RB (current KC)
7 242 SEA Michael Bowie T (OOL)
7 241 SEA Jared Smith DT (OOL)
7 220 SEA Ryan Seymour G (OOL)

2014

2 64 SEA Justin Britt T Current SEA
2 45 SEA Paul Richardson WR Current WAS
4 132 SEA Kevin Pierre-Louis LB Current NYJ
4 123 SEA Kevin Norwood WR OOL
4 108 SEA Cassius Marsh DE current SF
5 172 SEA Jimmy Staten DT OOL
6 208 SEA Eric Pinkins DB OOL
6 199 SEA Garrett Scott OL OOL
7 227 SEA Kiero Small RB OOL

2015

2 63 SEA Frank Clark DE Current SEA
3 69 SEA Tyler Lockett WR Current SEA
4 134 SEA Mark Glowinski G Current IND
4 130 SEA Terry Poole G OOL
5 170 SEA Tye Smith CB Current TEN
6 214 SEA Kristjan Sokoli DT Current NYG
6 209 SEA Obum Gwacham DE Current NYJ
7 248 SEA Ryan Murphy DB Current NYJ

So their equivalent players on roster for those 3 years are:

3 on roster out of 27 picks (or for Jamf's 2 year note, 1 out of 17 picks for 2013-2014)

Tyler Lockett strikes me as their main standout
13 of 27, or just under 50% are out of the league

All 3 years they traded their first round picks (none of the resulting players are on their team -- Percy Harvin, Jimmy Graham, Kyle Van Noy, Cassius Marsh

Interestingly Paul Richardson was picked 2 spots ahead of Trent Murphy both moved on because the drafting team didn't want to keep them

CRedskinsRule · 03-30-2018, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamf

These bad drafts are part of the reason why they have been on the decline.

Seattle built their Super Bowl teams from picks after the second round who became pro bowlers.

What 3 teams would you list as top drafting teams from 2013-2015?

jamf · 03-30-2018, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

What 3 teams would you list as top drafting teams from 2013-2015?

Unfortunately I don’t have time to review drafts but I would say any team that has turned their team around the last few years has drafted well.

It’s all about wins.
Redskins win loss record is mediocre just like their drafts.

CRedskinsRule · 03-30-2018, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamf

Unfortunately I don’t have time to review drafts but I would say any team that has turned their team around the last few years has drafted well.

It’s all about wins.
Redskins win loss record is mediocre just like their drafts.

That is a false equivalence. There are a lot of factors as to how a team does in the win loss records. The Eagles by all accounts have drafted terribly The Last 5 Years yet they won the Super Bowl. Our drafting has been average to above-average our injuries have been higher, our QB situation / drama has been higher, I would say our coaching has been average, and our win loss record is average or medium. I doubt it's the drafting because you can look at the history and see how the players have panned out and by and large the Redskins drafted players have panned out in the NFL. There are a lot of other factors.

CRedskinsRule · 03-30-2018, 01:01 PM

A few different sites rankings:
None of these are definitive but to give a general flavor:

https://nypost.com/2017/04/22/studyi...ms-at-picking/
They rank us 7 over the past 5 years ( They have the Seahawks at number 5)

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/nfl...sses-2012-2016
They have us at number 5, Seahawks at Number 1

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissm.../#34977d0d5dcd
They have us at 16, Seahawks at 2

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/galler...present-030117
They have us at 9, Seahawks at 12.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...by-draft-class
They rank us 12th, Seahawks 3rd

I guess the point of this is that ranking drafting is a pretty damn subjective task. The Skins FO isn't perfect at it, BUT to say that they can't get anything past the 20th pick like you said at one time is not very realistic understanding of how difficult NFL drafting really is.

03-30-2018, 08:32 AM	#1
GridIron26 Playmaker Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Englewood, CO Age: 35 Posts: 3,270	Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts 2015 seems to be Allen's year; 2014 could be considered as a satisfactory year, depending on who you ask I suppose. I know few players drafted in 2014 went to different teams but I don't think it's entirely Allen's fault, teams overpaid for those players except for Breeland. Do you really want us to match other teams' offer for Long and Murphy? John Keim said we kept in touch with those players, which is a sign that we want to bring them back but obviously once the numbers Long and Murphy came up with are out of Redskins' range set based on their value, Redskins FO deemed it better to let them walk and draft replacements or sign FA players who are cheaper. It is all about how Redskins value players and positions. Take Patriots as example; they traded away Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins, their top 2 LB pass rushers and both are considered as premier players in NFL. Obviously Belichick didn't think it is worth to spend lot of money on those LB so he traded them.

03-30-2018, 08:33 AM	#2
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 44 Posts: 12,416	Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts I'd call it average drafting, personally, because the lack of a superstar outside of Scherff who really should have been one given where drafted. Reed has been a game changer but unfortunately can't stay healthy often enough. But there are plenty of players here who can contribute and some contribute quite well. These were decent drafts but you have to be honest in recognizing there is no Richard Sherman in the 5th, etc. __________________ God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.

03-30-2018, 08:38 AM	#5
GridIron26 Playmaker Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Englewood, CO Age: 35 Posts: 3,270	Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts Also 2015 draft might would have appear to be much better if Jarrett didn't get injured?

03-30-2018, 09:46 AM	#6
CRedskinsRule Living Legend Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 57 Posts: 21,202	Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts tl;dr It's easier to criticize our own teams drafting, but comparing to other teams, imo, shows that it was pretty damn good. Here is Seattle's equivalent (I used them based on Schneed's Richard Sherman example) 2013 2 62 SEA Christine Michael RB (current Colts) 3 87 SEA Jordan Hill DT (current IR Lions) 4 123 SEA Chris Harper WR (out of league -OOL)) 5 158 SEA Luke Willson TE (current Lions) 5 138 SEA Tharold Simon DB (OOL) 5 137 SEA Jesse Williams DT (OOL) 6 194 SEA Spencer Ware RB (current KC) 7 242 SEA Michael Bowie T (OOL) 7 241 SEA Jared Smith DT (OOL) 7 220 SEA Ryan Seymour G (OOL) 2014 2 64 SEA Justin Britt T Current SEA 2 45 SEA Paul Richardson WR Current WAS 4 132 SEA Kevin Pierre-Louis LB Current NYJ 4 123 SEA Kevin Norwood WR OOL 4 108 SEA Cassius Marsh DE current SF 5 172 SEA Jimmy Staten DT OOL 6 208 SEA Eric Pinkins DB OOL 6 199 SEA Garrett Scott OL OOL 7 227 SEA Kiero Small RB OOL 2015 2 63 SEA Frank Clark DE Current SEA 3 69 SEA Tyler Lockett WR Current SEA 4 134 SEA Mark Glowinski G Current IND 4 130 SEA Terry Poole G OOL 5 170 SEA Tye Smith CB Current TEN 6 214 SEA Kristjan Sokoli DT Current NYG 6 209 SEA Obum Gwacham DE Current NYJ 7 248 SEA Ryan Murphy DB Current NYJ So their equivalent players on roster for those 3 years are: 3 on roster out of 27 picks (or for Jamf's 2 year note, 1 out of 17 picks for 2013-2014) Tyler Lockett strikes me as their main standout 13 of 27, or just under 50% are out of the league All 3 years they traded their first round picks (none of the resulting players are on their team -- Percy Harvin, Jimmy Graham, Kyle Van Noy, Cassius Marsh Interestingly Paul Richardson was picked 2 spots ahead of Trent Murphy both moved on because the drafting team didn't want to keep them

03-30-2018, 01:01 PM	#11
CRedskinsRule Living Legend Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 57 Posts: 21,202	Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts A few different sites rankings: None of these are definitive but to give a general flavor: https://nypost.com/2017/04/22/studyi...ms-at-picking/ They rank us 7 over the past 5 years ( They have the Seahawks at number 5) https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/nfl...sses-2012-2016 They have us at number 5, Seahawks at Number 1 https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissm.../#34977d0d5dcd They have us at 16, Seahawks at 2 https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/galler...present-030117 They have us at 9, Seahawks at 12. https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...by-draft-class They rank us 12th, Seahawks 3rd I guess the point of this is that ranking drafting is a pretty damn subjective task. The Skins FO isn't perfect at it, BUT to say that they can't get anything past the 20th pick like you said at one time is not very realistic understanding of how difficult NFL drafting really is.

03-30-2018, 08:36 AM	#3
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 44 Posts: 12,416	Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts To emphasize my point, there are no All Pros here. Two players have made the Pro Bowl, Scherff and Reed. __________________ God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.

3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts

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