Coaching/talent

[sportscurmudgeon]

I happen to believe that players win and lose games far more frequently than coaches win and lose games. I realize that others here disagree but try to explain these things to me.

We had a defensive coordinator here named Mike Nolan. The Skins' defense was decidedly mediocre and he was ushered out of town with a big sigh of relief because people thought he was less than fully competent. MIke Nolan is now the defensive coordinator in Baltimore. He has better players there than he had here and maybe he has some more players there who do what he asks them to do instead of "freelancing". And now he is a "hot commodity" as a coordinator and is considered a candidate for a head coaching job. (Frankly, I would not hire him as a head coach, but his name is out there.)


Meanwhile, in Baltimore in 2000, Marvin Lewis coached that Ravens' defense and it was so good that it won the Ravens a Super Bowl with Trent "Bleeping" Dilfer playing QB. Marvin came here and took over a less talented - and a certainly less cooperative - defensive unit and it didn't work nearly as well.

I don't believe Nolan got a whole lot smarter and more competent by moving 50 miles north while Lewis got a whole lot dumber and less competent by moving 50 miles south. I don't think that coaching ability is dependent on the latitude of the home stadium.

So, I think this situation revolves around the fact that the Skins defensive players have been less talented and less "coachable" than the Ravens players much more than it revolves around the capabilities of the two defensive coordinators. I think both men are/were competent and above the threshold of competence needed to succeed. But they both seem to be doing/have done better in Baltimore...

[Gmanc711]

Hey S.C., whats your take on Greg Williams this year. I agree that ussually players win/lose more than coaches, but I think our defense could be an exception to that. I really think Greg Williams scheme has a ton to do with the defensive success we have had this season; while others couldnt do that with the same (or with these injuries) or somtimes more talent here. Do you agree with me there?

[BrudLee]

I agree that coachability is a big issue. We loaded the defense with big-name "talent" for Mike Nolan, and ushered him out because he couldn't make winners out of Deion Sanders, Mark Carrier, and Bruce Smith. We now realize that those players were either over the hill, or so "set in their ways" that they wouldn't listen to Nolan or anyone else. Any success Lewis had here was despite Bruce Smith, not because of him.

Now look at the players making an impact this year. To a large extent, they are young guys who believe in their coach and his system. The free agents this year weren't rent-a-studs, they were guys with something to prove.

By the way, Curmudgeon, I agree with your assessment of Nolan. An interesting side note to Mike's resurgence in Baltimore. Nolan always coached the 4-3, until he arrived there. The talent they had the year he arrived made them switch to the 3-4. He isn't a "3-4 guru" (like Wade Phillips), so they hired position coaches to teach their coordinator the system. For this he gets put on the media's "hot list" for head coaching jobs.

[skins009]

Gregg Williams is def. a very gifted d-cordinator. ANd Nolan is def. very average. Its not hard to be good on D when you got Ray lewis and Ed Reed.

[Daseal]

Look at the players Mike Nolan is working with now, and the players Williams is working with now. Not only has Nolan had his system in place for years, he has arguably the most talented defense in football. However we're ranked #2 and they're just good in the redzone.

[Daseal]

Just checked and the Ravens moved into 4th YPG defense. They';re on the way up.

[Redskins8588]

Nolan maybe a good D. Coordinator, but it isnt that hard to coach a team that is already established, for example look at what Barry Switzer(SP) did when he took over after Jimmy Johnson, I mean when the players are in place and already know what to do, coaching really isnt that hard. Johnson put that team together, and all Switzer did was walk on the sidelines.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Marvin Lewis took the 22nd ranked defense and turned it into the 5th best defense in the league in ONE SEASON.

Gregg Williams took a pretty bad defense and our defense is currently #2 in the league. He did this despite:

-losing the projected starting MLB to IR (Pierce was an UFA)
-losing LaVar Arrington for about 10 weeks (Marshall was an UFA)
-losing the starting RDE (to Warner, another UFA)
-starting DT Joe Salave'a (though he had started just 1 game in 03')
-losing the starting SS (Lott had never started a single game)
-losing the backup SS (Clark had 5 starts under his belt)

Do you see us with the #2 ranked defense with our old defensive coordinator and these injuries?

Moreover, the offense has been so pathetic that I can't believe that anyone on defense is playing with intensity. Our offense wasn't great last year, but it was far better than it is this year.

[MTK]

Great players can make coaches look a lot better than they are and sometimes it goes the opposite way.

All I know is Gregg Williams has done an unbelievable job with a defense that most predicted was going to be mediocre at best.

More than any other sport, the NFL is a coaches league.

[That Guy]

also, coach's assistants can make coaches look better...

[sportscurmudgeon]

This is amazing. People who think that Greg Williams walks on water play down the level of talent he has on the field to make it seem as if he is a genius.

Others say that it's hard not to be good with Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. In this case it is the Ravens coach who is the lucky SoB who has all the good players.

But if someone - like me for instance - says that the Skins defense is not up to snuff on the talent dimension, a whole bunch of folks will jump ugly with me and tell me how everyone on the defensive side of the ball is a beast and/or a warrior and ought to be in the Pro Bowl.

If both argumetns were true, the Skins would be 8-3 just on the basis of their dominating defense - - but they're not...

Williams made a big difference in a year for several reasons. One of them is that he installed a much more aggressive defensive system this year than was there last year. He gets 100% of the credit for that.

He also has a new DL. Only Wynn is a holdover - unless you count Jermaine Haley - who plays about three snaps of the ball every four games. The DL last year was rotten; it is now upgraded to average. That is a HUGE improvement. And Williams will earn mega bonus points if he can keep Griffin's motor running next year too. Griffin has had a good year earlier in his career but it never carried over into the next year.

He has three coachable linebackers on the field right now who are rarely way out of position. In an aggressive defense, the guys who have to "cover" for the aggression have to do their job or there will be huge plays run against the defense. Last year's defense was built by a coach selected by the players because he would allow them to "freelance". Oh swell!

Williams has two much better than average cover-corners which has allowed him to let the safeties cover for each other because each safety has shown to be "error-prone" this year.

Greg Williams has gotten about all you can expect a coach to get out of this assemblage of players. Now for the defense to step up and actually win a game on its own when the offense puts next to nothing on the board, that will be for the players to do...

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Our D is dominant, regardless of how many points they put (or don't put) on the scoreboard.

Also, it's not contradiction to say that we have loads of talent on our roster (including the defense of course) while simultaneously arguing that Williams has done a lot with so little. As I noted previously, what Williams has done is amazing considering how many injuries our defense has suffered.

Williams gets some credit for HIS defensive scheme, doesn't he? Regardless of whether it is more or less aggressive, it's simply better. HIS scheme is working.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

This is amazing. People who think that Greg Williams walks on water play down the level of talent he has on the field to make it seem as if he is a genius.

So are you saying the reason the D is ranked #2 overall is because of our overwhelming talent level? I guess it's due to our lot of household names like Lemar Marshall, Ryan Clark, Joe Salave'a, Ron Warner, Antonio Pierce, and Jermaine Haley?

Seems like you're downplaying the job Williams has done.

I'm not saying we don't have some talent, but Williams deserves the majority of the credit for the turnaround of the defense this year. He's got guys who would be scrubs on other teams playing way above expectations.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

I happen to believe that players win and lose games far more frequently than coaches win and lose games. I realize that others here disagree but try to explain these things to me.

We had a defensive coordinator here named Mike Nolan. The Skins' defense was decidedly mediocre and he was ushered out of town with a big sigh of relief because people thought he was less than fully competent. MIke Nolan is now the defensive coordinator in Baltimore. He has better players there than he had here and maybe he has some more players there who do what he asks them to do instead of "freelancing". And now he is a "hot commodity" as a coordinator and is considered a candidate for a head coaching job. (Frankly, I would not hire him as a head coach, but his name is out there.)


Meanwhile, in Baltimore in 2000, Marvin Lewis coached that Ravens' defense and it was so good that it won the Ravens a Super Bowl with Trent "Bleeping" Dilfer playing QB. Marvin came here and took over a less talented - and a certainly less cooperative - defensive unit and it didn't work nearly as well.

I don't believe Nolan got a whole lot smarter and more competent by moving 50 miles north while Lewis got a whole lot dumber and less competent by moving 50 miles south. I don't think that coaching ability is dependent on the latitude of the home stadium.

So, I think this situation revolves around the fact that the Skins defensive players have been less talented and less "coachable" than the Ravens players much more than it revolves around the capabilities of the two defensive coordinators. I think both men are/were competent and above the threshold of competence needed to succeed. But they both seem to be doing/have done better in Baltimore...

So there's no possibility that Nolan has become a better coach? It's all on the players and their "coachability"?

As for Lewis he only had one year here, and the D finished #5 overall I think. So how less competent was he? Had he been here for a few years he probably could have done an even better job.

So after Lewis left and the reins of the D were handed to Edwards, the D rankings sunk to the bottom of the league. Did our players suddenly become less coachable?

[diehardskin2982]

four reasons our defense is good...
Sean Taylor
Cornellius Griffin
Smoot
Springs
Without them we suck lets not let the smoke and mirrors fool u if we had everyone healthy on both offense and defense we would be superbowl contenders.