the all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread sponsored by Paintrain

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Honestly, people need to chill the f*ck out about what is going on this offseason. Jay Gruden is hiring people from his network, just like every other NFL HC does. Bruce Allen is doing the same with the front office. It happens all the time in the NFL and most of the time outside the NFL.

Allen has been a competent GM in his career and so far I'm fine with most of the things he has done with the team. He's not Vinny Cerrator or Jerry Jones. The fanbase b*tched 24/7 about how we didn't have a true GM or we didn't have football people running the team. Well, we now have both (we even had that during MS tenure here).

Its the offseason, you know how we roll. Waiting on: Haynesworth thread, "Trade RG3 for 10 draft picks" thread, etc.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

I think most QBs are balanced.. The only purely pocket passers in the league (guys you want to throw first and run last) I think are:

Peyton
Brady
Worthlisberger
Flacco

Maybe others to be added.

Brees
Rivers
Palmer
M. Ryan

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Honestly, people need to chill the f*ck out about what is going on this offseason. Jay Gruden is hiring people from his network, just like every other NFL HC does. Bruce Allen is doing the same with the front office. It happens all the time in the NFL and most of the time outside the NFL.

Allen has been a competent GM in his career and so far I'm fine with most of the things he has done with the team. He's not Vinny Cerrator or Jerry Jones. The fanbase b*tched 24/7 about how we didn't have a true GM or we didn't have football people running the team. Well, we now have both (we even had that during MS tenure here).

This x 10

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Its the offseason, you know how we roll. Waiting on: Haynesworth thread, "Trade RG3 for 10 draft picks" thread, etc.

I expect pointless threads. It's just hearing this over and over again is getting old:

"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden is Zorn 2.0!"
"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden is hiring people he knows!"
"Waaaaaaaaaa! Bruce Allen is hiring everyone from Tampa!"
"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden just said something that must mean everything is going to hell!"

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Yeah I don't get this whole Tampa shit, and Doug Williams got fired at grambling so how is he qualified for an NFL job?? I agree I don't think we will be any good under Dan , I've lost all faith in the franchise, sorry to admit it but I have. I'm a fan of course and I'll watch but I'm not excited about the future at all. Mike and co. Killed it for me.

Allen had success with the model and personnel before. I guess we have to trust that he knows the recipe for success and he's just trying to duplicate it, albeit with different J. Gruden.

If we could get our defense built to the caliber of the "Tampa 2" defense led by Barber, Sapp, Brooks, Rice, Kelly, Lych...we'll be lucky.

Doug Willliams might not be a bad idea as a QB coach/mentor or with a role in the front office. He HAS had success on several levels and that wasn't the reason he was fired at Grambling. The team dominated in his first stint, 4 straight conference titles, going 40-8 in those years...52-18 overall. The program obviously had issues his second time around based on how it ended.


I would not be surprised to see him come in. Allen seems to have a thing for Redskins history with comments he's made when hired.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I expect pointless threads. It's just hearing this over and over again is getting old:

"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden is hiring people he knows!"
"Waaaaaaaaaa! Bruce Allen is hiring everyone from Tampa!"
"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden just said something that must mean everything is going to hell!"

It really amazes me people are hung up on this stuff. Look around at every coaching staff and front office and tell me this isn't par for the course. Look at the staff that just left here FFS. Shanny had "his guys" all over the place including his son. Gibbs 2.0 also included a bunch of his former coaches.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Brees
Rivers
Palmer
M. Ryan

Carson Palmer threw for 4200 yards and ran for 3 last year.

Matthew Stafford doesn't have to run, just throw to Calvin.

Bradford would get hurt if he tried to run.

Eli Manning ran for 36 yards last year. Romo, despite always running for his life all year, only managed 38 rushing yards total...he runs backwards most of the time.

Can we count Schaub and Gabbert as starting QBs any more? They do not run.


There are still more statues playing QB than we thought.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

He said 3-4 RO plays a game. Nothing crazy. Put away the jump to conclusions mat.

Well his quote that trying to make RGIII a pocket passer is foolish doesn't square with what RGIII has in mind. This is what I'm referring to, not that we'll be running the RO often. Look, I've been hearing tweets from LL/httr24-7 even from 2012 about how Robert wanted to be known as a pocket passer and he wasn't down with using him as a runner. Something doesn't give here between the quote and RGIII wishes.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

It really amazes me people are hung up on this stuff. Look around at every coaching staff and front office and tell me this isn't par for the course. Look at the staff that just left here FFS. Shanny had "his guys" all over the place including his son. Gibbs 2.0 also included a bunch of his former coaches.

Honestly, I'm shocked we didn't have this times a thousand when Gibbs was hired considering how long both he AND his assistants had been out of the game.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I expect pointless threads. It's just hearing this over and over again is getting old:

"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden is Zorn 2.0!"
"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden is hiring people he knows!"
"Waaaaaaaaaa! Bruce Allen is hiring everyone from Tampa!"
"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden just said something that must mean everything is going to hell!"

You forgot:

"Waaaaaaaaaaaa! Redskins fans are voicing their displeasure again!"


Nothing worse than bitching about the bitchers.

For the record. I like Jay Gruden and I don't mind he's hiring people he knows. My only qualm here is two things. (maybe three)

1) Jim Haslett still DC
2) Bringing in Doug Williams. Nothing about his career says otherwise.
3) Bruce Allen making personnel decisions. (this is if he overrides our personnel guys)

[MTK]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Well his quote that trying to make RGIII a pocket passer is foolish doesn't square with what RGIII has in mind. This is what I'm referring to, not that we'll be running the RO often. Look, I've been hearing tweets from LL/httr24-7 even from 2012 about how Robert wanted to be known as a pocket passer and he wasn't down with using him as a runner. Something doesn't give here between the quote and RGIII wishes.

I don't think Griffin is against running. He scrambles enough on his own to tell you how he really feels about running. I think the plan in year 1 was to ease up on the read option as the season went on and develop him more in the pocket, but because of the crazy success they had that plan went out the window.

You did see Gruden's other quotes right?

"My goal in training camp is to see how much he can develop as a drop-back passer," Gruden said. "Obviously he can do the rollouts and the naked bootlegs and all that. But let's see what he can do from the pocket, and if he can run from there, that's when he'll really get a lot of yards."

"There comes a point in a season, in a game, when you have to do some dropback passing," he said. "You are going to have third-and-12 where you can run read option or a bubble screen. If you are down two touchdowns late in the third quarter, you have to be able to be a dropback passing team. You have to have that part established. So we really want to focus on that, teach him some concepts we like and have at it."

"It's a long season," Gruden said. "It's a 16-game grind. You don't want him getting hit 15, 20 times a game on read options. You have to keep your stars healthy. You don't want to put him at risk too much. But that's who he is. It's what he is as a quarterback. He's very effective in that regard."

"I don't anticipate running a lot of read option," he said. "I think if you use it three or four times a game, you'll have more success than if you try to feature your whole offense around it. It's not just tough on the quarterback taking hits, it's tough on the tackles with their aiming points, where are they going. It's something you have to practice a lot to get very good at."

"From a talent standpoint as far as throwing the ball I don't see a lot of weaknesses," Gruden said. "It's just that he hasn't been asked to do a lot of different things as far as the drop-back passing game is concerned. I don't know if he is going to have any limitations. He might not have any. We'll wait and see."

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

You forgot:

"Waaaaaaaaaaaa! Redskins fans are voicing their displeasure again!"


Nothing worse than bitching about the bitchers.

For the record. I like Jay Gruden and I don't mind he's hiring people he knows. My only qualm here is two things. (maybe three)

1) Jim Haslett still DC
2) Bringing in Doug Williams. Nothing about his career says otherwise.
3) Bruce Allen making personnel decisions. (this is if he overrides our personnel guys)

6 years in the Bucs front office doesn't 'say otherwise'? Director of Pro Scouting doesn't 'say otherwise'?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I don't think Griffin is against running. He scrambles enough on his own to tell you how he really feels about running. I think the plan in year 1 was to ease up on the read option as the season went on and develop him more in the pocket, but because of the crazy success they had that plan went out the window.

You did see Gruden's other quotes right?

"My goal in training camp is to see how much he can develop as a drop-back passer," Gruden said. "Obviously he can do the rollouts and the naked bootlegs and all that. But let's see what he can do from the pocket, and if he can run from there, that's when he'll really get a lot of yards."

"There comes a point in a season, in a game, when you have to do some dropback passing," he said. "You are going to have third-and-12 where you can run read option or a bubble screen. If you are down two touchdowns late in the third quarter, you have to be able to be a dropback passing team. You have to have that part established. So we really want to focus on that, teach him some concepts we like and have at it."

"It's a long season," Gruden said. "It's a 16-game grind. You don't want him getting hit 15, 20 times a game on read options. You have to keep your stars healthy. You don't want to put him at risk too much. But that's who he is. It's what he is as a quarterback. He's very effective in that regard."

"I don't anticipate running a lot of read option," he said. "I think if you use it three or four times a game, you'll have more success than if you try to feature your whole offense around it. It's not just tough on the quarterback taking hits, it's tough on the tackles with their aiming points, where are they going. It's something you have to practice a lot to get very good at."

"From a talent standpoint as far as throwing the ball I don't see a lot of weaknesses," Gruden said. "It's just that he hasn't been asked to do a lot of different things as far as the drop-back passing game is concerned. I don't know if he is going to have any limitations. He might not have any. We'll wait and see."

I understand this. It just solidifies my notion that the comment about it being "foolish to make RGIII a pocker passer" is indeed foolish itself.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

6 years in the Bucs front office doesn't 'say otherwise'? Director of Pro Scouting doesn't 'say otherwise'?

I suggest you look at those drafts during that time. Complete garbage. Ask Raheem Morris. He inherited that shit team.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I understand this. It just solidifies my notion that the comment about it being "foolish to make RGIII a pocker passer" is indeed foolish itself.

It would be foolish to make him operate like a Manning or Brady is what I believe he meant.

You're getting way too caught up in one liners.