Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009

[GMScud]

An example would be cutting Springs, Griffin, and Marcus W. That would save us $13M in cap space this coming season, which could easily turn into 4 or 5 moderately priced younger players who could add depth to both sides of the line and the LB position....

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GMScud

An example would be cutting Springs, Griffin, and Marcus W. That would save us $13M in cap space this coming season, which could easily turn into 4 or 5 moderately priced younger players who could add depth to both sides of the line and the LB position....

Though to be accurate, if you're going to cut a DT like Griffin, you'd have to add 2 DTs in order to build depth.

If we're going to take 1 step back by cutting still-starting quality players, we'll have to find a way to replace them without breaking the bank, or we'll get worse.

Maybe that's what needs to happen, maybe we have to shed the old guys and get worse before we get better. But I've got to emphasize that, if we get rid of all our older players chances are we'll get worse this season, because we don't have the picks to fill the holes through the draft like the Ravens did (as mentioned in the post article), and it's not that easy to fit that many quality players under the cap via free agency.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Though to be accurate, if you're going to cut a DT like Griffin, you'd have to add 2 DTs in order to build depth.

If we're going to take 1 step back by cutting still-starting quality players, we'll have to find a way to replace them without breaking the bank, or we'll get worse.

Maybe that's what needs to happen, maybe we have to shed the old guys and get worse before we get better. But I've got to emphasize that, if we get rid of all our older players chances are we'll get worse this season, because we don't have the picks to fill the holes through the draft like the Ravens did (as mentioned in the post article), and it's not that easy to fit that many quality players under the cap via free agency.

Is Griffin still a quality player? Seems like he's always injured.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Though to be accurate, if you're going to cut a DT like Griffin, you'd have to add 2 DTs in order to build depth.

If we're going to take 1 step back by cutting still-starting quality players, we'll have to find a way to replace them without breaking the bank, or we'll get worse.

Maybe that's what needs to happen, maybe we have to shed the old guys and get worse before we get better. But I've got to emphasize that, if we get rid of all our older players chances are we'll get worse this season, because we don't have the picks to fill the holes through the draft like the Ravens did (as mentioned in the post article), and it's not that easy to fit that many quality players under the cap via free agency.

I don't think we should get rid of ALL of our older players, but we should be selective and not be so damn worried about keeping together a core group for a "one last run at it" kind of thing. The Ravens, Flacons, and Dolphins all proved that if you build the lines, you can succeed (overnight) in spite of other weaknesses. IMO, we should adopt that strategy and move forward.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think the main point that some are missing is that, while I believe all of those trades are possibilities, there is a zero percent chance that every one of those five players gets traded. It's not a fire sale here. One, maybe two trades at most. There's got to be a player market, and just because the Skins are shopping them does not at all mean that they'll get what their asking for. In fact, you usually ask for something that no one plans to give you, so that in the case a desperate team bites, you win the trade easily.

Horton played really, really poorly against the pass down the stretch. He's almost as bad as Doughty against it. Unlike Doughty, he's a poor pass rusher. Where Horton makes up for that all is his unbelievable closing speed against the run. Teams really started taking advantage of him in the play action game, because he bites so badly on run fakes, and his guy tends to be wide open.

I mean, let's face it, a second rounder for one of the last picks in the draft last year is a HUGE steal. You don't even think about it. Is anyone that desperate to get a safety who cannot cover? Highly doubt it. Horton will be back, and likely in the starting lineup next year, but he's got a lot to work on in the off-season.

Consistently rush the passer and everyone in the secondary will look good in pass defense. I don't care who's back there. When the opposing QB, even Ryan Fitzpatrick of the Bengals, has all day to throw the DBs are going to get gouged. Biting on run fakes is coachable. Horton hits hard , has a nose for the ball and can catch. He's also inexpensive.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I don't think we should get rid of ALL of our older players, but we should be selective and not be so damn worried about keeping together a core group for a "one last run at it" kind of thing. The Ravens, Flacons, and Dolphins all proved that if you build the lines, you can succeed (overnight) in spite of other weaknesses. IMO, we should adopt that strategy and move forward.

The Ravens, Falcons and Dolphins had losing seasons before they got better. I wonder if the fan base and to some extent, the ownership/front office has the patience to go through a losing season of rebuilding. These losing seasons allowed these teams to make good acquisitions with high draft picks (Ravens got Flacco, Falcons got Matt Ryan, and the Dolphins got Jake Long).

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

The Ravens, Falcons and Dolphins had losing seasons before they got better. I wonder if the fan base and to some extent, the ownership/front office has the patience to go through a losing season of rebuilding. These losing seasons allowed these teams to make good acquisitions with high draft picks (Ravens got Flacco, Falcons got Matt Ryan, and the Dolphins got Jake Long).

I was just going to say this exact thing. The Ravens come to mind, they built their lines over the course of several drafts. They didn't suddenly draft 12 new linemen in one draft. They got Grubbs a few years ago, just as one example.

Besides, changing ourselves overnight is not an option for us, at least not through the draft (which is the right way to do it). We have 4 (or 5? I can't remember) draft picks. That's not going to make a difference overnight.

If you want an overnight impact you'd have to go to free agency. But again, with the cap situation, as much room as we could clear by cutting older guys, it would still take up significant space to replace them (because of the last-capped-year rules). It's just not feasible from a cap standpoint to replace Griffin, Springs, Taylor and Washington with a replacement AND build depth on top of their replacements.

What we're talking about here is a potential commitment to a youth movement. If we're going the route of cutting old expensive guys, then we have to find moderately priced free agents to replace them with now (ie no impact players) and draft well over the course of two or three seasons. I don't see how it can happen overnight for the Redskins. We're not the Dolphins with the luxury of picking Jake Long, we're not the Ravens sitting here with 10 draft picks.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

What we're talking about here is a potential commitment to a youth movement. If we're going the route of cutting old expensive guys, then we have to find moderately priced free agents to replace them with now (ie no impact players) and draft well over the course of two or three seasons. I don't see how it can happen overnight for the Redskins. We're not the Dolphins with the luxury of picking Jake Long, we're not the Ravens sitting here with 10 draft picks.

I understand the Ravens built their current team through a few drafts. What I meant by changing overnight was with regard to record. Baltimore and Miami were shitty teams in '07, and they both made the playoffs this year.

The Redskins are not a shitty team, but we are old. I don't think we should blow it up, but we have to get younger. It doesn't have to happen all at once, but I'd like to see us to do a few things moving forward (not just this offseason, every offseason):

1) Focus more on improving the lines
2) Put more of a premium on draft picks
3) Stop constantly restructuring the contracts of aging players with declining skills

[Hog1]

Trying to look at this from another slant.....maybe, and there's the Vinnie. IMO there are many ways to creatively build a team and not isolated to soley the draft, FA only, Divine intervention, etc.
That having been said, much has been said of late regarding the Skins trouble in fielding the team they are "paying for". Additionally, it has been suggested (by several people that should know) that VC is not a bad FO guy. NOT a good one either......average. If you have ever heard him speak for any length of time it is apparent, he has an ego. I think in his mind he is the second coming of Bobby Beatherd, and delivering inspired work through brilliant thought process, in creative ways and means. I disagree. I think as has been stated that he is hovering somewhere around average.
I think if you are not succesfully breaking new ground, and developing great success through previously unthought of means.............you should stick to ways that most "plodders" can also have prosperity.
Stick with the draft, and keep your nose in the wind for the occasional FA bargain, and undrafted UM grad/soon to be star.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I understand the Ravens built their current team through a few drafts. What I meant by changing overnight was with regard to record. Baltimore and Miami were shitty teams in '07, and they both made the playoffs this year.

The Redskins are not a shitty team, but we are old. I don't think we should blow it up, but we have to get younger. It doesn't have to happen all at once, but I'd like to see us to do a few things moving forward (not just this offseason, every offseason):

1) Focus more on improving the lines
2) Put more of a premium on draft picks
3) Stop constantly restructuring the contracts of aging players with declining skills

Our hand will be forced on point #3. The last-capped-year rules prevent us from restructuring contracts drastically this year. And then if 2010 is uncapped the contract structure won't matter.

[Schneed10]

Nice post by JLC here, giving some source info on potential player personnel decisions. The numbers never lie; much of what he says here jives with the top post in this thread.

Initial Personnel Ratings Completed - Redskins Insider

Griffin is likely to stay, Washington is almost surely gone, Jason Taylor and Shawn Springs are up in the air - the team intends to approach them with paycuts/restructuring possibilities, but JLC believes they're not likely to be receptive.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Nice post by JLC here, giving some source info on potential player personnel decisions. The numbers never lie; much of what he says here jives with the top post in this thread.

Initial Personnel Ratings Completed - Redskins Insider

Griffin is likely to stay, Washington is almost surely gone, Jason Taylor and Shawn Springs are up in the air - the team intends to approach them with paycuts/restructuring possibilities, but JLC believes they're not likely to be receptive.

Disappointing to hear that they don't think Rinehart is at least ready to compete for significant playing time in 2009. Maybe I was actually wrong about him. Wouldn't that be something?!

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Disappointing to hear that they don't think Rinehart is at least ready to compete for significant playing time in 2009. Maybe I was actually wrong about him. Wouldn't that be something?!

I am much like Desert Storm I.........Shocked and Awed!

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Nice post by JLC here, giving some source info on potential player personnel decisions. The numbers never lie; much of what he says here jives with the top post in this thread.

Initial Personnel Ratings Completed - Redskins Insider

Griffin is likely to stay, Washington is almost surely gone, Jason Taylor and Shawn Springs are up in the air - the team intends to approach them with paycuts/restructuring possibilities, but JLC believes they're not likely to be receptive.

This process that JLC is referring to by the way is basically what I was explaining here.

http://www.thewarpath.net/523135-post23.html

Though it seems I forgot to include the part where they review their own players before the meeting to discuss free agents

[Son Of Man]

PLLLLEEEEEEAAAAASSSSSEEEE

Cut Springs!