Campbell's numbers dont lie

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

This is what completion percentage grades a QB on, and Campbell's right dead at the league average.

So in a vacuum, Campbell misses just as often as he makes. Compared to all first round draft pick QBs since his draft year of 2005, the group of guys who "make plays" at a higher rate includes only Cutler, Rodgers, and Flacco.

I looked at first rounders only because if you were to consider using a 2010 first rounder on a QB, you'd expect 2/3 of potential draftees to post a lower career completion % than Campbell, and that's just not helping.

This is where the stat line lies. Yes he had a good completion %, looks like he played a good game but he missed 3 easy TD's yesterday. It only shows up as 3 incomplete passes but the reality is it could've been 21 points. He can make up those incompetions with screens, wr screens and easy short crossing passes. It's the big plays he misses that hurts the offense.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Brady prior to 2004 was a pretty mediocre QB, and he won two titles before his breakout. Roethlisberger in 2005. Eli in 2007.

How often does one of the top five QBs in the NFL at the time actually win the super bowl? Peyton in 2006, Brady in 2004, Warner in 1999, and like, Favre in 1996? Those teams had playmakers at the QB spot and won, I guess, but in 13 years a top five quarterback (in that year) has won the super bowl four times. That's 30%.

You're wasting your time on this argument. Having a great quarterback and having a great defense are both great weapons in terms of winning playoff games, but balance is way more important.

Yeah right. 03 and 04 were pretty damn good years for Brady. Especially when was throwing to Deion Branch, Troy Brown and the guy that left for Tenn that was never heard from again. If JC could put up numbers that Brady did in those years he'd be rewarded with a big raise.

[DBUCHANON101]

Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIII
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIV
Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants - SB XXV
Mark Rypien, Washington Redskins - SB XXVI
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVII
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVIII
Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIX
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXX
Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - SB XXXI
John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXII
John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXIII
Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - SB XXXIV
Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - SB XXXV
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVI
Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - SB XXXVII
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVIII
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXIX
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XL
Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts - SB XLI
Eli Manning, New York Giants - SB XLII
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XLIII

Past SB winning QB's, id say this is a pretty good list. Nothing avg about them. But once here and there you will find a name that had a GREAT Defense that carried the team to the title but like i said for the most part these guys led their team to the "W". And the ones who rode their defense to the title,how often do you see a defense of that caliber? not very often do you see a defense like that of the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, or the Bucs of 2002. In these rare cases i believe these defenses actually outscored the opposing team all by themselves in the SB.
In the post you had earlier where you stated if JC had an avg offensive supporting cast around him he could be a SB contending QB with a great defense. Well i think you would be hard pressed to find a pro QB who wouldnt, and thats the point, that you are more likely to win a title with a top QB with a top 10 defense than you are to have the stars align just right and have a great defense that wins the games for you.

[MTK]

Campbell is on pace this type of season:

299 of 452 (66.1%) for 3,324 yards, 18 TDs and 14 INTs. QB rating of 87.9

It's another year of improvement, career highs in completion %, yards, QB rating, and TDs. All with a subpar offensive line.

So is this a guy we look to move on from? I'm on the fence.

[wilsowilso]

One thing I am sure of. The Redskins oline has been a major problem for a long long very long time.

The Samuels/Jansen combo was pretty overrated from day one.

The line JC has had the fortune to play behind over his entire pro career has been a vastly overrated unit IMO.

This year the line is just a freakin nightmare. Who knows how good the guy is?

JC isn't any kind of hall of famer, but he has plenty of good skills.

[DBUCHANON101]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Campbell is on pace this type of season:

299 of 452 (66.1%) for 3,324 yards, 18 TDs and 14 INTs. QB rating of 87.9

It's another year of improvement, career highs in completion %, yards, QB rating, and TDs. All with a subpar offensive line.

So is this a guy we look to move on from? I'm on the fence.

Yeah but how many guys keep the pace they are on for 16 games? And dont forget that the numbers you got for this sample were from the easy part of our schedule. We have a tough road ahead of us.

[redsk1]

Good post DB 101. It's the exception to the rule when a "mediocre" QB wins the SB.

The only reason this thread is "revived" is b/c Kyle Orton got hurt and didn't play the 2nd half and LB/the oline had a big game yesterday. JC had an average day.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by DBUCHANON101

Yeah but how many guys keep the pace they are on for 16 games? And dont forget that the numbers you got for this sample were from the easy part of our schedule. We have a tough road ahead of us.

Well Denver had the #3 ranked D coming in to yesterday and he had one of his better games statistically, and outside of the KC game he's been pretty consistent.

If the protection is there for him, who knows?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by DBUCHANON101

Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIII
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIV
Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants - SB XXV
Mark Rypien, Washington Redskins - SB XXVI
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVII
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVIII
Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIX
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXX
Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - SB XXXI
John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXII
John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXIII
Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - SB XXXIV
Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - SB XXXV
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVI
Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - SB XXXVII
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVIII
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXIX
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XL
Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts - SB XLI
Eli Manning, New York Giants - SB XLII
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XLIII

Past SB winning QB's, id say this is a pretty good list. Nothing avg about them. But once here and there you will find a name that had a GREAT Defense that carried the team to the title but like i said for the most part these guys led their team to the "W". And the ones who rode their defense to the title,how often do you see a defense of that caliber? not very often do you see a defense like that of the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, or the Bucs of 2002. In these rare cases i believe these defenses actually outscored the opposing team all by themselves in the SB.
In the post you had earlier where you stated if JC had an avg offensive supporting cast around him he could be a SB contending QB with a great defense. Well i think you would be hard pressed to find a pro QB who wouldnt, and thats the point, that you are more likely to win a title with a top QB with a top 10 defense than you are to have the stars align just right and have a great defense that wins the games for you.

Campbell is a decent QB and he's the best we have. Does it have to be championship level or trash for you? He's not elite and he's not garbage. Trying to make a strong case either way is pretty foolish.

[DBUCHANON101]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

One thing I am sure of. The Redskins oline has been a major problem for a long long very long time.

The Samuels/Jansen combo was terribly overrated from day one.

The line JC has played behind over his entire pro career has been a vastly overrated unit IMO.

This year the line is just a freakin nightmare. Who knows how good the guy is?

JC isn't any kind of hall of famer, but he has plenty of good skills.

Its the same line that TC used when he took us to the playoffs. and its also the same line that CP ran behind when he was having very good seasons for us. Id say it was above avg until recently when injuries/age began to set in.

[DBUCHANON101]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Campbell is a decent QB and he's the best we have. Does it have to be championship level or trash for you? He's not elite and he's not garbage. Trying to make a strong case either way is pretty foolish.

Im sorry, i thought the goal was to win the SB. History has shown that the chances are pretty unlikely you will do that with a 50/50 QB.

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by DBUCHANON101

Its the same line that TC used when he took us to the playoffs. and its also the same line that CP ran behind when he was having very good seasons for us. Id say it was above avg until recently when injuries/age began to set in.

The Redskins offense has been bad forever.

I argue that it starts and ends with the oline.

They shouldn't take all the blame, but I think they were kind of fooling us for many years. Just good enough to not get really exposed.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Campbell is on pace this type of season:

299 of 452 (66.1%) for 3,324 yards, 18 TDs and 14 INTs. QB rating of 87.9

It's another year of improvement, career highs in completion %, yards, QB rating, and TDs. All with a subpar offensive line.

So is this a guy we look to move on from? I'm on the fence.

he's missed wide open receivers for TD passes while having ample protection from his o-line far too many times to continue to stick with. He's improved in some areas, but he continues to fumble too much, make poor decisions, and hold on to the ball too long. You put Patrick Ramsey behind a pro-bowl offensive line and he'd be a top 5 quarterback. I'm not kidding. Just about ANY QB can be pro-bowl caliber if his line is good, but that doesn't mean he's a great QB... just the beneficiay of 5 amazing guys protecting his butt. What we have, even with injuries, is a slightly below average offensive line that was average in the second half of last year and top5 in the first half of last year. Campbell hasnt gotten it done consistently no matter how good the o-line in front of him was playing.

Great quarterbacks can play well behind sub-par offensive lines. Look at what payton manning did in 2008 and what rothlesberger is doing now, as just two examples. You can make all the excuses you want for Campbell, but great quarterbacks make the players around them better, and Campbell hasnt done that and never will. Last year, i'd never heard of half the guys who are catching balls from manning now, but they all looked GREAT tonight. They'd look like doo-doo if Campbell was throwing to them.

Campbell isnt the only problem on our offense, but he's probably the biggest. He could go to the pro-bowl behind a great O-line, but it wouldnt be because he's a game winner. he's a game manager. Thats all he's ever been and that's all he'll ever be.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by DBUCHANON101

Im sorry, i thought the goal was to win the SB. History has shown that the chances are pretty unlikely you will do that with a 50/50 QB.

Of course that's the goal but by your scale 26 active QB must suck since only 6 active QB are Super Bowl winners. Teams win SB not individuals.

[rbanerjee23]

his problem is that his stat line is fine but the problem is he misses too many wide open wide receivers - he left 2 touchdowns that I saw on the field: the missed bomb to santana moss and the intentional grounding call where he should have seen Yoder wide open 2 yards from the end zone