Campbell's numbers dont lie

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

BTW, there's a lot of interest in Campbell around the league right now, specifically from franchises out west. I would not be surprised if Matt Hasselbeck was the quarterback here next year.

Just saying.

I'm all for moving Campbell if we could get something for him. But I dont see it. I think the FO's attempt earlier this year to trade him proved that....

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Campbell's issue appears to be that he's been handed a "now or never" scenario, and then given a team with no chance to win now. It's pretty obvious that Campbell is not the right quarterback for this team. Campbell's defense is not trash, it's giving him plenty of chances to win games, but the expectation from the front office is that Campbell leads an offensive resurgence that scores lots of points.

You're getting a lot of fumbles and interceptions and careless play from Campbell that seem to just be a result of the situation. Erratic quarterback play is not what this team requires right now, but the front office pretty much got what they asked for.

The problems I've mentioned about JC are his and his alone. I'm not sure what situation you mean. He can control those things. He can't control a ball getting batted at the line for an INT, and I didn't slam him for that play. He can't control Heyer and Williams missing blocks, and in those instances I've not criticized him.

His ball security has been poor and it's not improving. His long release and his bad habit of "patting" the ball before a throw causes a delay in the ball getting out and missed opportunities. His inaccuracy, missing open receivers, and not making audibles are his fault. If audibles are not available to him in the system, then that's Zorn's fault.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

BTW, there's a lot of interest in Campbell around the league right now, specifically from franchises out west. I would not be surprised if Matt Hasselbeck was the quarterback here next year.

Just saying.

If that's true, put JC on the bench so he doesn't get hurt or continue his poor play and he has some value in the off-season.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

I'm all for moving Campbell if we could get something for him. But I dont see it. I think the FO's attempt earlier this year to trade him proved that....

Well, they could have moved him to Tampa for a second/third round pick if they had been more punctual (Tampa pulled out, not coincidentally, after KSU's pro day), but the whole plan was bad from the beginning. Have you seen what Cutler is doing this year? Campbell has never had a game as bad as Cutler has had against either Green Bay or Cincinnati this year.

If we traded Campbell at this point, we'd likely get a late round draft pick or a backup QB. But there will be a lot of QBs released from their contracts this offseason who we can bring in. The free agent class is Chad Pennington, Daunte Culpepper and a bunch of nobodies, but I could see any of the following players released:

Matt Hasselbeck
Mark Bulger
Kellen Clemens
Tavaris Jackson
Alex Smith
Shaun Hill
Billy Volek
Brodie Croyle
Byron Leftwich
Jim Sorgi
Chris Simms

Of course, the only two players on that list that would represent an upgrade over Campbell are Hasselbeck and Pennington...who are both injury risks.

I think we'll address QB in the draft, but not in the first round.

[SolidSnake84]

Pennington's career is likely over, and besides having an absolutley shot, raggedy throwing arm that never had strength to begin with, i dont see how he would make the difference here. The team needs the throw downfield. Chad is a great QB bu he never had the arm even in his prime before all the injuries....

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

The problems I've mentioned about JC are his and his alone. I'm not sure what situation you mean. He can control those things. He can't control a ball getting batted at the line for an INT, and I didn't slam him for that play. He can't control Heyer and Williams missing blocks, and in those instances I've not criticized him.

His ball security has been poor and it's not improving. His long release and his bad habit of "patting" the ball before a throw causes a delay in the ball getting out and missed opportunities. His inaccuracy, missing open receivers, and not making audibles are his fault. If audibles are not available to him in the system, then that's Zorn's fault.

Well, ball security has been an issue going back to the first game, and it's really just deteriorated since then. Inaccuracy is a more recent problem, and no less troubling.

There's plenty to not like about Campbell's play right now, but the only thing that's different between this year and last year is the expectations and consequences. The Redskins don't score points, and they are really, really hoping that Jason Campbell is the reason. But, I think we've seen that Campbell succeeding at ball security and mid-range completions and failing at them are not the difference between the Redskins scoring points and not.

You and I both know that Jason Campbell is incapable of giving the Redskins what they want, and we both know he's capable of playing better than he is right now. Here's where the siutation is at fault: should Campbell be more conservative with his mechanics giving the situation, even if it would make him a better player? Protecting the ball, and not throwing INTs gives this team it's best chance to win, but it does nothing for Jason Campbell's long term future of this team. Winning 6 games because of improvements in ball security still means a change at QB next year. And that's where the problem lies: there's no incentive to do the small things (which are 100% in his control) better because Campbell is getting blamed for the big picture things which ne has no control over. And that's because we're a horrendous organization.

I do not, and have not disagreed with your analysis, and I think you're doing a top notch job. At this point though, I'm finding myself (naturally) less concerned with the what (bad QB play), and more with the why.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

They just started getting ridiculous with the permanent bans. I myself got banned for life last night. They gave no reason. I suspected that some of my posts were unpopular with the moderators. I had been there since 2005 with no incidents whatsoever, and then last night got permanently banned. No lie, within the past month, i know of at least 50 people who have been banned for life. I saw 5 or 6 of them on here today.

The board over there is a mess...one guy named "Jumbo", apparantly launched into a racial tirade last night....they even called in about it today on 106.7 The Fan.....its just a couple bad mods ruined it for everyone...

Interesting but not surprising. That place has been going downhill for a while now.

Well, you're always welcome here.

[SolidSnake84]

Thanks to everybody who has welcomed me here. I can see already that this is the place for me. People seem friendlier and the whole board has a cleaner, more family style orientation to it.

Also i tip my hand to SmootSmack for keeping me from foolishly going back on ES and launching a tirade..people here are clearly level headed. I can tell you that in the nearly 5 years i spent over there, nobody there ever made me feel welcome like this.

Thank you again.

Mark

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

Thanks to everybody who has welcomed me here. I can see already that this is the place for me. People seem friendlier and the whole board has a cleaner, more family style orientation to it.

Also i tip my hand to SmootSmack for keeping me from foolishly going back on ES and launching a tirade..people here are clearly level headed. I can tell you that in the nearly 5 years i spent over there, nobody there ever made me feel welcome like this.

Thank you again.

Mark

Glad you made the leap Snake, but beware. From time to time you will be made sport of...........it's our way
HTTR

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

Thanks to everybody who has welcomed me here. I can see already that this is the place for me. People seem friendlier and the whole board has a cleaner, more family style orientation to it.

Also i tip my hand to SmootSmack for keeping me from foolishly going back on ES and launching a tirade..people here are clearly level headed. I can tell you that in the nearly 5 years i spent over there, nobody there ever made me feel welcome like this.

Thank you again.

Mark

There'll be a mint on your pillow in the morning. And Hog1 will be stopping by later in the afternoon to turn your bed, offer you fresh towels, and, if you're interested, some shiatsu massage

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

Pennington's career is likely over, and besides having an absolutley shot, raggedy throwing arm that never had strength to begin with, i dont see how he would make the difference here. The team needs the throw downfield. Chad is a great QB bu he never had the arm even in his prime before all the injuries....

Yeah, never understood why Chad was somewhat of a hot commoditiy after his stint with the Jets. Alex Smith would be an intriguing FA move though. I would get Chase Daniel back, keep JC if possible, dump Collins and bring in Smith if we don't draft a QB. JC is a backup QB at best now.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The free agent class is Chad Pennington, Daunte Culpepper and a bunch of nobodies, but I could see any of the following players released:

Matt Hasselbeck
Mark Bulger
Kellen Clemens
Tavaris Jackson
Alex Smith
Shaun Hill
Billy Volek
Brodie Croyle
Byron Leftwich
Jim Sorgi
Chris Simms

Of course, the only two players on that list that would represent an upgrade over Campbell are Hasselbeck and Pennington...who are both injury risks.

I think we'll address QB in the draft, but not in the first round.

What a mess.
I read an article recently that had JC as the second best FA QB after Orton, who's probably going to sign before FA.

That's an ugly list.
I would rather stick with JC and fix the OL.

*BTW-I doubt the Vikes release T-Jack.
After they signed Rosenfels they still named T-Jack the No.2 QB because he out played Sage in the preseason.
T-Jack might end up being their QB after Favre retires.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Yeah, never understood why Chad was somewhat of a hot commoditiy after his stint with the Jets. Alex Smith would be an intriguing FA move though. I would get Chase Daniel back, keep JC if possible, dump Collins and bring in Smith if we don't draft a QB. JC is a backup QB at best now.

Woah woah woah. Alex Smith? Why? He's been a colossal bust thus far. Yeah, he had one good game against the 21st ranked D. Nothing really intriguing about him IMO.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Its a losing battle. You will not convince the believers. No argument will make them see. Just be content with the fact that the people who watch the film for a living see what you are seeing. Jaws called it all night. Greg Cossel has made the point ad nauseam. On this board Slingin' Sammy has it in black and white in his review. The old adage is "the eye in the sky doesn't lie" not "numbers are truth." If you can't see that Campbell is frankly scared to make passes then you are not watching. You can make all of the excuses you like, the guy refuses to throw into tight windows. I have said it before and Sammy said it nicely in his game review, without the ability to make quick reads, play with timing, and throw into tight windows you are a backup quarterback at the NFL level. That is what we have with Campbell. Next man.

Dude, Jaws both praises and critisizes Campbell, Cossel has been effusive breaking down Campbell passes. As have Brian Billick, Phil Simms. Just this week Collinsworth on Doc Walker, Joey T on the Sports Reporters, John Ritchie on ESPN have all said that JC is a good QB playing behind a suspect OL.

Lol, I like Sammy's reveiws too but he's no more an expert then i am.
You guys share the same opinion but its still just your opinion.

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Forget the stats, forget comparing him to any other quarterback and really isolate Campbell's play.

I'm not denying that JC misses open receivers or checksdown.
But rather the idea that JC does it more then other QBs and that is how a judgement is made.

from the last game that Campbell was responsible for then let me know - turnovers, missed touchdowns/big plays, and awful pocket presence (leading to undue pressure and sacks).

Awful pocket presence leading to undue pressure? Really? You think JC is causing the pressure and sacks? Okay.
LoL, JC pocket presence or lack thereof at the start of the game is due to previous games lack of protection.
Although JC had pressure the fumble was his fault the onus is always on the ball carrier to protect the ball.
Missed 'big' play? Dude, every QB misses some plays, they pointed out McNabb missing a 'big' play.

I think everything on offense is predicated on and ran through the quarterback. That's why I really believe that the most important thing is to fix that position first,

OL brotha OL it starts right there.

[SmootSmack]

You know one thing about Alex Smith. Yes he's been a bust so far but he's also been through five offensive coordinators in five seasons. I'm just saying we've used that as an excuse for Campbell...