Let's talk about the front office situation

[WillH]

You all keep saying the same thing and acting like I am completely off-base, but he very clearly says the decisions on scheme lie with him, why is that ok with everyone?

[Redskins_P]

Originally Posted by WillH

You all keep saying the same thing and acting like I am completely off-base, but he very clearly says the decisions on scheme lie with him, why is that ok with everyone?

Because he clearly does not say that. He said that a new coach will bring schematic changes and they will pick their players based on the best fit for said scheme. Why is that so hard to understand? You keep trying to twist and bend his words so you can make yourself and us believe your logic. It's very simple. Pick a new coach, draft and sign players that fit his scheme.

[MTK]

Well this got dumb really quick.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

He was not a GM in the traditional sense. He had no control over player personnel. It was a Bill Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, I-buy-the-groceries-and-cook-the-dinner model.

Snyder hired Allen with a true GM model in mind, but to get Shanahan to sign on the dotted line he had to give him full control. That rendered Allen's true GM role useless, so Snyder had him doing other things.

Now Snyder has given Allen true GM power with player personnel decisions.

You're telling me a man that gets hired for the GM job only to be rendered powerless after the hiring of a head coach should not be viewed as a lackey?

I suppose you and I have a different view of the definition of lackey.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

Many Redskins fans are writing off Bruce Allen like he is not a legit executive. His strength is that he is a strong executive and will run the franchise like a business. He will rely on his team to help him make good decisions. Don't be surprised to see AJ Smith and Scott Campbell representing for us at the draft. I hope that we add someone for the 49ers front office staff.

a good executive in my book means knowing his place in the chain of command.

i really liked how bruce came out and laid things straight yesterday with a seemingly clear and firm game plan. I am worried that as a good executive he will submit to his boss who no one can deny likes to put his hand in the pot and feel like he is doing more than writing checks.

surprised bruce came out and gave mike the verbal middle finger .. i do wonder if that was to please DS by taking a clear shot at mike.

i really dont get why we are knocking shanahan's draft picks. the worst draft pick was a 3rd round OL guy ..... i really liked the roster he put together under the circumstances.


if DS does meddle i am going to be seriously seriously pissed off. this structure and environment as it stands now is ripe for DS meddling.

i think bruce is more a yes man vs sticking up to DS and it scares me

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Well this got dumb really quick.

It's good to see Allen has supporters and detractors.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

a good executive in my book means knowing his place in the chain of command.

i really liked how bruce came out and laid things straight yesterday with a seemingly clear and firm game plan. I am worried that as a good executive he will submit to his boss who no one can deny likes to put his hand in the pot and feel like he is doing more than writing checks.

surprised bruce came out and gave mike the verbal middle finger .. i do wonder if that was to please DS by taking a clear shot at mike.

i really dont get why we are knocking shanahan's draft picks. the worst draft pick was a 3rd round OL guy ..... i really liked the roster he put together under the circumstances.


if DS does meddle i am going to be seriously seriously pissed off. this structure and environment as it stands now is ripe for DS meddling.

i think bruce is more a yes man vs sticking up to DS and it scares me

Is there really much here to like?

2010: Trent Williams and Perry Riley, the other 4 picks are long gone.
2011: Kerrigan, Jenkins, Hankerson, Helu, meh to the rest.
2012: RG3, Morris, Cousins, the rest are mostly weekly inactives.
2013: Amerson, Reed, no impact from the rest.

11 guys worthing noting in 4 drafts? 3 truly impactful guys (Griffin, Trent, Morris). We need to do a lot better in order to really get this team moving in the right direction.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by WillH

I see that yes, but redefining the characteristics of players recruited has EVERYTHING to do with scheme.

i was somewhat confused as to the sequence of statements as well = saying first "we are going to redefine ..." followed by saying "when we have a HC ..." makes it seem like they will first decide what type of player they are looking for and then allow the new HC to have some input as well but after-the-fact.

but i reminded myself that this was the transcript of allen's presser and words have better context and fluidity when heard instead of seen in B&W.

my clear impression is that they will get a new HC who will have input on the players as well. somewhat awkward sentence structure.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Is there really much here to like?

2010: Trent Williams and Perry Riley, the other 4 picks are long gone.
2011: Kerrigan, Jenkins, Hankerson, Helu, meh to the rest.
2012: RG3, Morris, Cousins, the rest are mostly weekly inactives.
2013: Amerson, Reed, no impact from the rest.

11 guys worthing noting in 4 drafts? 3 truly impactful guys (Griffin, Trent, Morris). We need to do a lot better in order to really get this team moving in the right direction.

considering 1) where some of these guys were drafted (4th R or later) and 2) our draft history before MS ... i think mike did better than anyone under DS's tenure imo. looking at those names you listed, that is our young core players.

[WillH]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

i was somewhat confused as to the sequence of statements as well = saying first "we are going to redefine ..." followed by saying "when we have a HC ..." makes it seem like they will first decide what type of player they are looking for and then allow the new HC to have some input as well but after-the-fact.

but i reminded myself that this was the transcript of allen's presser and words have better context and fluidity when heard instead of seen in B&W.

my clear impression is that they will get a new HC who will have input on the players as well. somewhat awkward sentence structure.

Sure, transcripts can come across differently, and no I didn't watch the presser, and I appreciate you being polite about it. Thank you!

But I still maintain that the strong statement at the end of "the decision will be mine," is concerning because he is not a football guy, he is a management guy. I certainly hope the new coach has say over scheme, otherwise it will get ugly quickly, and I think it will be pretty apparent early on, like it was with Zorn.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by WillH

Sure, transcripts can come across differently, and no I didn't watch the presser, and I appreciate you being polite about it. Thank you!

But I still maintain that the strong statement at the end of "the decision will be mine," is concerning because he is not a football guy, he is a management guy. I certainly hope the new coach has say over scheme, otherwise it will get ugly quickly, and I think it will be pretty apparent early on, like it was with Zorn.

This will probably be sticking point with the new coach, I want to run my own scheme. I dont think Bruce will say Bevell your hired, now be prepared to Houston run n shoot from 1992

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by saden1

You're telling me a man that gets hired for the GM job only to be rendered powerless after the hiring of a head coach should not be viewed as a lackey?

I suppose you and I have a different view of the definition of lackey.

Lackey is much different than puppet, which was the term I took issue with. People out there are saying that Allen is just an extension of Snyder, carrying out his whims. I do not think that's an educated statement in the slightest.

If I were going to characterize Allen's role under Shanahan, I would use the word chump or errand boy. But that's not to say he's not capable or qualified. There's a difference between what you are capable of and what your boss actually has you doing. Snyder relegated him to a ninny role because he had to in order to land Shanahan, who said to Dan in no uncertain terms, I get full control or you don't get Mike Shanahan.

But not anymore, that's where my optimism comes from.

[over the mountain]

the pessimist in me interpreted allen's strong statement of "the decision will be mine" as trying to put an end to any early speculation about DS making football/player decisions.

im in a wait and see mode. i like allen being the clear head person in charge ... but a part of me is very afraid he will allow DS to whisper in his ear but deny DS doing so.

these are very important times for the skins franchise. stakes are high. i really need allen to truly take charge. for the love of my B&G .. please.

[Paintrain]

Allen pretty clearly said that Campbell will be running the draft and Brown handling free agency. He us probably the final say guy and the one who would sign off on trades and things like that but I didn't get the sense that it was all Bruce making the personnel decisions.

[WillH]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

This will probably be sticking point with the new coach, I want to run my own scheme. I dont think Bruce will say Bevell your hired, now be prepared to Houston run n shoot from 1992

Sure, (and I know people are sick of my opinion, but that is what a forum is for) I think this will be a sticking point for coaching candidates, but I don't think my concern is as ludicrous as people are making it out to be. The FO HAS made important football decisions before hiring a HC before, and we were stuck with Zorn. Maybe I am not remembering correctly, but I seem to recall that they hired the coordinators before they settled on Zorn.

IF, there is any question about schemetic decision making (and granted that may be a BIG IF), than what kind of coach are we going to be able to land.