Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)

[GTripp0012]

One 1st is way too much.

He's not on the "trading block" until you can get him at a reduced price, like a 2nd round pick. If he's not on the trading block, why in the heck are we trying to trade for him?!?!?!

Those deals never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever work out in our favor.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by KB24

Not when we have more pressing needs at other positions.

Chad would address a big need for a legitimate #1 WR. And would leave us 8 other picks to address other needs. This is one 2008 draft pick. If we could get Chris Long to address the pass rush that would be one thing, but Phillip Merling/Calais Campbell weren't even dominate pass rushers last year at the college level. Maybe we get Lawrence Jackson in the 2nd. This isn't a Ricky Williams/Hershel Walker deal ... we'll have other picks - 3 in the first 3 rounds - even if we made the trade.

Whatever, I've got to abandon this thread ....

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Chad would address a big need for a legitimate #1 WR. And would leave us 8 other picks to address other needs. This is one 2008 draft pick. If we could get Chris Long to address the pass rush that would be one thing, but Phillip Merling/Calais Campbell weren't even dominate pass rushers last year at the college level. Maybe we get Lawrence Jackson in the 2nd. This isn't a Ricky Williams/Hershel Walker deal ... we'll have other picks - 3 in the first 3 rounds - even if we made the trade.

Whatever, I've got to abandon this thread ....

9 picks, but only 3-4 of them will actually be used when there is some legitimate NFL talent on the board. We would be cutting that number down to 2-3, and we simply can't afford to do that.

9 picks are nice but the final 5 can't really be expected to be anything above special teamers for us. If they are, great, but it's not a good plan.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

I think he is. Look who's throwing the ball to Williams and who to Johnson. Carson Palmer vs. Jon Kitna, no contest.

OK, fine one more post. This one is just too obvious. Jon Kitna was the Bengals starting QB from 2001 to 2003. In 2002 Johnson had 1,166 yards and 5 tds. In 2003 he had 1,355 yards and 10 tds. QB has not been Roy Williams' problem, staying healthy and remaining consistent has - which I would think would raise some issues for Skins fans .....

Did anyone see that the Bengals refused the trade and are being pretty steadfast in that stance? Just checking cause it is tough to tell from this thread.

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

9 picks, but only 3-4 of them will actually be used when there is some legitimate NFL talent on the board. We would be cutting that number down to 2-3, and we simply can't afford to do that.

9 picks are nice but the final 5 can't really be expected to be anything above special teamers for us. If they are, great, but it's not a good plan.

So Chad Johnson doesn't count as legitimate NFL talent now? I know that you wouldn't argue that, but it is a corollary of the point you are making. Giving up a 1st for Johnson gives us an elite NFL talent at a position of need plus 2-3 more picks to get other NFL talent ... and I think you discard the later picks too easily btw.

[Campbell17]

I want ocho cinco but we need to make thet 1st round pick

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

One 1st is way too much.

He's not on the "trading block" until you can get him at a reduced price, like a 2nd round pick. If he's not on the trading block, why in the heck are we trying to trade for him?!?!?!

Those deals never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever work out in our favor.

I agree. I just finished listening to John Clayton say that the Bengals will not not not trade CJ no matter what, and Marvin Lewis is basically daring him to be a man, live up to his word, and sit out the season.

I think the Bengals are treating this entire CJ fiasco as one big temper tantrum. They're hoping that once he realizes all his crying, pouting, and foot stomping is getting him no where, once he realizes his $8M/yr salary and QB are both damn good, then he'll eventually tuck his tail and report to the team.

On a side note, not only did Cincy nix our offer for CJ, but they have apparently called Philly and Dallas and told them to not even bother making an offer. Looks like Stinko will either be playing for the Bengals or playing couch potato this fall.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Nope. I would shell that for a more physical, younger and better WR. ROY WILLIAMS!! If Roy W. had Carson Palmer as QB he's stats would be better than CJ's.

Well I think Roy Williams is a great WR, but let's not canonize him while demonizing CJ. We shouldn't complain about CJ's celebrations while forgetting this.

When Albom asked Williams why he celebrated a reception with his team already trailing by two scores, Williams responded, "I celebrate first downs all the time. I'm not gonna stop that. I'm an exciting player. If I do something exciting, I'm gonna show my actions."

Albom responded, "But you were losing, 10-0."

"What does that mean? ... That means nothing to me. The score means nothing," Williams told Albom.

ESPN - Lions' Roy Williams says 'score means nothing' - NFL

[hagams]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

My concern with Chad Johnson isn't the production. It's a possible shift away from the running game that will stunt the running games growth, sort of like New England lasat year. I mean seriously we'll have Cooley, Johnson, ARE, and Moss competing for catches. Not to mention the desire to use Portis and Sellers in the passing game. As long as we stick to the running game and add an O-lineman or two through the draft then I'm fine with the trade.

I also think this would impact the running game, but not only that the rest of our receivers. What happens when Chad isn't getting the ball, because Cooley is constantly open? That leaves us in the same boat the Bengals are in now. I presonally want him on the team, but it's going to be very fragile for a while. Also, would you want a first year coach to have to put up with Chad's outburst's? Or how about a QB who is finally coming into his own zone to have his go-to guy in his face if he's not feeding his stats enough? Now that I think of it, I'm 50/50 on Chad coming here.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

Never said that we should do it even though we are only losing one pick this year and one pick next year.

We need to get out of the habit of giving away draft picks like they're candy. The New Englands, Indianapolises, Pittsburghs and New York Giants of the world use ALL of their draft picks, groom their own talent and get themselves into situations where EACH of those picks are contributing on the field. The Giants had all of their draft picks playing in their Super Bowl run. We need to quit being star-struck and build from within.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well I think Roy Williams is a great WR, but let's not canonize him while demonizing CJ. We shouldn't complain about CJ's celebrations while forgetting this.



ESPN - Lions' Roy Williams says 'score means nothing' - NFL

Williams is a tremendous talent, and a when healthy can dominate. He has, however, had difficulty remaining healthy apart from the year he made the Pro Bowl and he can disappear for games at a time. I think if people looked really really hard at Williams - the way they have at Johnson - they would see a supreme talent who has been less consistent, less productive, and more injury prone than Johnson. Not saying I wouldn't want Williams (though his team also insists he won't be traded, so why not wait a year and target him and Colston?) but I wouldn't want to make as big an offer for him as I would for Johnson.

Roy Williams: Game Logs

Chad Johnson: Game Logs

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

I think he is. Look who's throwing the ball to Williams and who to Johnson. Carson Palmer vs. Jon Kitna, no contest.

Doesnt mean that much look who threw the ball to Steve Smith. Chad Johnson is faster, has better hands, runs better routes, and is a better all around player

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by KB24

We need to get out of the habit of giving away draft picks like they're candy. The New Englands, Indianapolises, Pittsburghs and New York Giants of the world use ALL of their draft picks, groom their own talent and get themselves into situations where EACH of those picks are contributing on the field. The Giants had all of their draft picks playing in their Super Bowl run. We need to quit being star-struck and build from within.

never said we should do it BUT dont make it seem like the pick we make will automatically pan out

[GMScud]

Apparently the Bengals said the Redskins DID NOT make an offer, and PFT seems to think we're tampering big time:

BENGALS SAY NO OFFER HAS BEEN MADE FOR JOHNSON

Posted by Mike Florio on April 22, 2008, 1:28 p.m.
On Tuesday morning, Chris Mortensen of ESPN reported that the Washington Redskins have offered the Cincinnati Bengals a first-round pick in 2008 and a conditional pick in 2009 that could escalate to a first-rounder for receiver Chad Johnson.
Bengals coach Marvin Lewis says that it never happened.
“Mike Brown has not received a phone call,” Lewis said at a Tuesday press conference.
Lewis also continues to call Johnson’s bluff regarding his intention to retire if not traded. “He’s a man of his word,” Lewis said. “He says he’s not going to play, so don’t play. It’s time to do what you’re going to say you do and we’ll just move forward.”
So what’s going on here? It’s possible that the offer was made, and that the Bengals have opted to deny it in order to avoid the intense pressure that eventually will come from the fan base to spare them the antics of Ocho Psycho by getting real value for him right now and moving on.
Really, what can the Redskins do if the Bengals are lying? Call a press conference to say that an offer has been made? (That would be tampering on its face.)
And we continue to be (more) concerned that tampering might be occurring with Johnson. Even if the ‘Skins aren’t directly talking to agent Drew Rosenhaus, the fact that the Washington Post knows that the team is ready to pay Johnson $21 million in guaranteed money strongly suggests that the team is putting this information out there in the hopes of continuing to stoke the “I want out” fire that has escalated into an inferno.
In our opinion, what the Redskins apparently are doing is 1000 times worse than the conduct that formed the basis for the Bears tampering allegations against the 49ers. In our opinion, the Bengals should file tampering charges against the Redskins today, if for no reason other than to get the Redskins to back off.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by KB24

We need to get out of the habit of giving away draft picks like they're candy. The New Englands, Indianapolises, Pittsburghs and New York Giants of the world use ALL of their draft picks, groom their own talent and get themselves into situations where EACH of those picks are contributing on the field. The Giants had all of their draft picks playing in their Super Bowl run. We need to quit being star-struck and build from within.

...I heard that.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

never said we should do it BUT dont make it seem like the pick we make will automatically pan out

There's no guarantee Chad will automatically pan out. If the pick is a bust, at least we still have that '09 third-rounder and won't take as bad of a hit on the cap.

Originally Posted by GMScud

Apparently the Bengals said the Redskins DID NOT make an offer, and PFT seems to think we're tampering big time:

BENGALS SAY NO OFFER HAS BEEN MADE FOR JOHNSON

Posted by Mike Florio on April 22, 2008, 1:28 p.m.
On Tuesday morning, Chris Mortensen of ESPN reported that the Washington Redskins have offered the Cincinnati Bengals a first-round pick in 2008 and a conditional pick in 2009 that could escalate to a first-rounder for receiver Chad Johnson.
Bengals coach Marvin Lewis says that it never happened.
“Mike Brown has not received a phone call,” Lewis said at a Tuesday press conference.
Lewis also continues to call Johnson’s bluff regarding his intention to retire if not traded. “He’s a man of his word,” Lewis said. “He says he’s not going to play, so don’t play. It’s time to do what you’re going to say you do and we’ll just move forward.”
So what’s going on here? It’s possible that the offer was made, and that the Bengals have opted to deny it in order to avoid the intense pressure that eventually will come from the fan base to spare them the antics of Ocho Psycho by getting real value for him right now and moving on.
Really, what can the Redskins do if the Bengals are lying? Call a press conference to say that an offer has been made? (That would be tampering on its face.)
And we continue to be (more) concerned that tampering might be occurring with Johnson. Even if the ‘Skins aren’t directly talking to agent Drew Rosenhaus, the fact that the Washington Post knows that the team is ready to pay Johnson $21 million in guaranteed money strongly suggests that the team is putting this information out there in the hopes of continuing to stoke the “I want out” fire that has escalated into an inferno.
In our opinion, what the Redskins apparently are doing is 1000 times worse than the conduct that formed the basis for the Bears tampering allegations against the 49ers. In our opinion, the Bengals should file tampering charges against the Redskins today, if for no reason other than to get the Redskins to back off.

I'd LOVE for that to happen!