Domestic terrorism

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

How dare you try to confuse the issue with facts!

So ,it's full blown terrorism not just some wacko with a gun.....oh wait, so tell me what the difference is again? (SARCASM ALERT)


Can we stop everything , no we can't and I do understand that but can't we just make it harder for these people to do what they do ?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Hijinx

Most of the deaths in Paris were from the guns not the bombs. The guns were result of no border between France and countries with lax gun laws, not France's own laws. Just like many guns used in California crimes are the result of Nevada's non-existent gun laws.
...

This is simply a false statement. If you don't believe me (I assume you won't), then I suggest you look at the links below. The short answer is every EU country has signed an agreement to a minimum restrictive set of gun laws. If they aren't being followed (ie Belgium) that moreso makes my point.

The long version follows:

The EU stance, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overvi...uropean_Union:

Prior to abolition of the internal border controls, the Council of the European Communities adopted the Directive 91/477/EEC, which was later, in 2008, amended by Directive 2008/51/EC. As a Directive, it is not a self-executing norm, but a legislative act which requires Member State to achieve a particular result without dictating the means of achieving it. Member States must meet the minimum requirements laid down by the directive, but may also elect to adopt more stringent rules.[89] Thus certain countries such as the United Kingdom or Poland are unaffected as they maintain more stringent gun control laws than those effectively set as a minimum by the European Union, while others, like the Czech Republic, were forced to introduce more regulation in their national legislation.

Further,

Here are France's direct neighbors, the length of the border, and a synopsis of their gun laws or rating as provided by GunPolicy.org, Gun Law and Policy: Firearms and armed violence, country by country

Andorra 56.6 km -

Civilian Gun Registration
In Andorra, the law does require that a record of the acquisition, possession and transfer of each privately held firearm be retained in an official register
Gun Dealer Record Keeping
In Andorra, licensed firearm dealers are required to keep a record of each firearm or ammunition purchase, sale or transfer on behalf of a regulating authority

Belgium 620 km - The regulation of guns in Belgium is categorised as restrictive

Germany 451 km same link, The regulation of guns in Germany is categorised as restrictive

Italy 488 km

In Italy, only licensed gun owners may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition
Genuine Reason Required for Firearm Possession
Applicants for a gun owner’s licence in Italy are required to establish a genuine reason to possess a firearm, for example self-defence, hunting, sport, work or performance of duties, as well as collection
Minimum Age for Firearm Possession
The minimum age for gun ownership in Italy is 18 years
Gun Owner Background Checks
An applicant for a firearm licence in Italy must pass a background check which considers criminal and mental records
Limit on Quantity, Type of Ammunition
Licensed firearm owners in Italy are permitted to possess only ammunition suitable for the intended firearm

Luxembourg 73 km - The regulation of guns in Luxembourg is categorised as restrictive

Monaco 4.4 km - The regulation of guns in Monaco is categorised as restrictive

Spain 623 km - The regulation of guns in Spain is categorised as restrictive

Switzerland 573 km - The regulation of guns in Switzerland is categorised as restrictive

For comparison, here are their remarks on the US:
- The regulation of guns in the United States is categorised as permissive

the United States, non-prohibited persons of minimum age 23 may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition
Minimum Age for Firearm Possession
The minimum age for gun ownership in the United States is regulated by state or local authorities according to weapon type, but is 18 years to purchase shotguns and rifles and 21 years to purchase all other firearms, according to Federal law
Domestic Violence and Firearms
Where a past history, or apprehended likelihood of family violence exists, the law in the United States stipulates that firearm possession should be denied or guns seized
Licensing Records
In the United States, authorities do not maintain a record of individual civilians permitted to acquire, possess, carry, sell or transfer a firearm or ammunition

[CRedskinsRule]

I realized I didn't include France's laws, but the same source puts them as restrictive, and the expanded sections are very detailed about just how they are. Here is the link for France:Guns in France — Firearms, gun law and gun control

[Hijinx]

Many of the EU union more more lax gun laws then those you mentioned. Many allow for semi automatic rifles that can be converted.

The fact is that gun laws work. Australia is a prime example. After the 1996 Port Arthur shooting, they did the sane thing and put in strict gun laws. There have been zero since that day. So don't sit there and tell me they don't work, because that is a lie.

[Hijinx]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I realized I didn't include France's laws, but the same source puts them as restrictive, and the expanded sections are very detailed about just how they are. Here is the link for France:Guns in France — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Since you like that site read this paper about the fact that a majority of gun deaths (86%) are caused by legally own guns held by their owners.

It is just a fact you don't want to deal with that less gun ownership equals less gun violence.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Hijinx

Many of the EU union more more lax gun laws then those you mentioned. Many allow for semi automatic rifles that can be converted.

The fact is that gun laws work. Australia is a prime example. After the 1996 Port Arthur shooting, they did the sane thing and put in strict gun laws. There have been zero since that day. So don't sit there and tell me they don't work, because that is a lie.

I mentioned all the countries that directly border France, and cited the EU framework that requires all countries to hold to certain standards.

Australia is a lousy example, because it is an island unto itself, and sparse population(23 million people over 2.97 million square miles compared to 318.9million people over 3.8 million square miles )

For the record there were gun homicides every year since 1996 in Australia. I don't know what you are saying is zero, but maybe you meant mass shootings?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Hijinx

Since you like that site read this paper about the fact that a majority of gun deaths (86%) are caused by legally own guns held by their owners.

It is just a fact you don't want to deal with that less gun ownership equals less gun violence.

I wouldn't argue against that.

I would argue that giving up an established right in the constitution, that was put there for a very specific reason, is a short sighted answer to the serious problem of how to reduce violence and will lead to a long term worse situation.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Giantone

So ,it's full blown terrorism not just some wacko with a gun.....oh wait, so tell me what the difference is again? (SARCASM ALERT)


Can we stop everything , no we can't and I do understand that but can't we just make it harder for these people to do what they do ?

What are your thoughts on that issue?

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Hijinx

Many of the EU union more more lax gun laws then those you mentioned. Many allow for semi automatic rifles that can be converted.

The fact is that gun laws work. Australia is a prime example. After the 1996 Port Arthur shooting, they did the sane thing and put in strict gun laws. There have been zero since that day. So don't sit there and tell me they don't work, because that is a lie.

Wow.......

The Facts That Neither Side Wants To Admit About Gun Control

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Or using Pressure Cookers like the Muslim boston bombers from Dagastan.

Are you saying ISIS needs to save their plane money and let our own Islamic terrorists kill us?

I think we have plenty of Christian terrorists (Planned Parenthood shootings) and heavily armed nuts (Sandy Hook, Aurora, etc., etc.) that cause plenty of terror in this country.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

France has a terrorist attack and they killed how many(130)? and what are their laws?

We have one that kills 14, and our gun laws are to blame?

Evil people wanting to do evil things will do them with pipe bombs, ied's, or planes.

We should be giving due recognition to the systems we have in place that repeatedly minimize the damage these types of evil acts attempt to inflict, instead of going for the happy happy joy joy solutions that far too often actually beget bad laws.

Europe has twice the population as the U.S. but not nearly the gun violence, although the Scandinavian countries and Switzerland have higher per capita deaths by gun violence. To be honest we don't know the full extent of gun violence in the U.S. since the CDC stopped tracking the impacts and rates in 1996. We basically have two groups pro gun control and anti gun control that are trying to make points without any credible data.

[Hijinx]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Wow.......

The Facts That Neither Side Wants To Admit About Gun Control

Oh wow!! The Mint News Press that is some well respected writing right there. You basically threw out a couple hundred word opinion piece, that doesn't site any sources on his made up "facts". All wrapped up and put of a right wing conspiracy site. BTW love this article here. It says Trump was right. People were dancing in the streets during 9/11, only it was Mossad Agents. Seems legit.

[Chico23231]

Islamic terrorist

This bullshit isn't about gun control

[Chico23231]

Why would a wife drop off her own 6 mo old baby to help rectify a workplace grievance?

Wake the fuck up folk...can't bye what this president is trying to sell you. He is trying to cover his ass on the poor ass job he is doing.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think we have plenty of Christian terrorists (Planned Parenthood shootings) and heavily armed nuts (Sandy Hook, Aurora, etc., etc.) that cause plenty of terror in this country.

So that nut was a Christian? Some part of a radical Christian group? Yeah that's not true or no investigation has proven it. That sounds like" well he is white and anti arbortion so he must be Christian" this logic doesn't make sense....

christian terrorists? Yeah, this is a well known terror movement or something I haven't heard about...I'm lost on your statement.

White folks who maybe anti abortion, anti government, or flat out racist like the kid in charleston doesn't mean they are some sort of violent pro-Christian movement.