Zone blocking

[aprius]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I guess what I'm not understanding is why all your hypotheticals tend to steer toward the negative.

Once again...after 13 years of failure what do I have to be positive about?
Prove to me we are a good team again.
Get this season started....Let us win 6 out of 8 and I might believe we are decent but we have folded before in positions like that.
What do I have to believe in anymore with this team?....That we might open up the offense this year?
Spurrier tried that.
Failed too.
That we have a good QB in Ramsey?
Spurrier didnt care for his lack of mobility and his decision making, etc.
Gibbs doesnt care for him either.
So much needs to be proven.
Frustration gets the best of me sometimes.
Apologies if I go overboard every so often.

[Defensewins]

Daseal seems to forget we were the laughing-stock of the NFL when Sprurrier was here. He forgot the 27-0 beating by Dallas and 31-7 ass kicking by the Eagles in final part of 2003 season (Spurriers last season). Spurrier went out with a whimper.
It wasn't just the defense ans special teams that played awful under Spurrier, the offense had major embarrasing moments too. The offensive line jumping offsides, penalty's, sacks, the running game was non-existant. My favorite was 5', 8" Chad Morton blocking DE's and getting schooled.
Last year under Gibbs our offense was the only weak link and most of that was the OL and QB play. Both will improve this year. That is the major diffrence between Gibbs and Spurrier regimes, the team will improve under Gibbs. The teams play grew worse under Spurrier.

[Paintrain]

The problem with the extreme optimists and pessimists on this site and in our fan base in general is misguided expectations. For some reason, to some, the return of Gibbs meant that the NFL should have immediately begun engraving his name on the Lombardi Trophy, if not re-naming it the Gibbs Trophy. When it didn't happen, he's old, he's lost, he's clueless, he's washed up, he's crazy and senile.. For some others he can do no wrong and this is the year! If not, then next year!

Let's face it, we, like probably 29 other teams in the league are flawed. We have holes on the team. How about we wait until at least September before we start predicting a Super Bowl run or a 4-12 season?

[MTK]

Great post Paintrain

[Daseal]

Starting from the bottom up: (this ended up being much longer than I expected)

Anyone can be a fan of a winner, but a true fan sticks with his man/team through the toughest times.

Let me get this straight, all of us Redskins fans have been so just for all the winning years we've been having? As has been said on this board many times; the team is bigger than any single part of it, which includes a coach or a player.

I simply don't know why all of a sudden I'm not a Redskins fan because I'm skeptical of the changes. Could they happen, sure! How many times did we hear last year that changes would be made that we never saw? That's what worries me.

I still fail to see how our OL is hurting, and I really don't see Dockery as being a major question mark. I thought he definitely improved last year and should only continue to do so. Yes he's the weakest link on what should be a very solid line as far as the starters go, but he's certainly not a huge liability. Otherwise why did we not look to upgrade this offseason? Obviously the staff has some faith in him.

I don't understand either, Matty. With both of our tackles back healthy (Samuels was nagged by an injury all year) and Rabach along with another year of experience for Dockery I think our line (and more importantly) the continuity of it just got better!

All I was trying to do is point out to everyone that Gibbs isn't this old stubborn coach who isn't willing to change his ways.

Exactly why I think he'll become a winner eventually. He's smart enough to assemble a savvy staff and I think he can put his ego below winning, which is what's really important.

My point is, is that Gibbs has always adjusted. He's not afraid to make changes. So, let's not right him off yet.

Redskins_P: I've heard this argument a lot, but that's what scared me a lot last year. What locker room changes did we see during a game? How many changes did the system go through during the year. I was looking forward to awesome halftime adjustments to pull games out and was disappointed. Granted - the offseason is a much longer time and gives you more time to prepare and brief everyone.

In today's NFL, you can't write off ANYBODY in ANY season. That includes the friggin Arizona Cardinals.

That’s for sure, but hey, the Cardinals ARE above us in the almighty power rankings! Seriously though, there are sleeper teams nearly every year now. However, how many years have we been saying we're that team. 1/32 is a pretty big long shot.

But it's going too far to say the Redskins have no shot this year because it's just not true.

Schneed, bro, please tell me where I say we don't have a shot this year. I've never said that, nor do I plan to.

On one hand, he disagrees with both Gibbs' playcalling of last year and personnel moves of this year, basically saying the playcalling was the problem last year, and now this year the problem is the personnel. Despite these problems, Daseal still says Gibbs will be successful in 3 years. I don't get that.

Last year, I did disagree with the playcalling. I also didn't like the formations and how we ran very few plays out of each. I think the schemes need more work than the playcalling, and the playcalling more work than anything. This offseason we had some good moves. Rabach was a great start, but honestly, I wanted to see little action besides a C and maybe if a cheap/decent TE (like Freddie Jones) came available try to snag em. Most importantly I simply didn't want to lose people. We gave up too much to dump Coles, Smoot/Pierce hurt, Gardner is going to get cut. The only place I don't like our backup is really with the WR spot. Our offseason wasn't that bad, it wasn't splashy, which I'm glad for I just didn't like to see so many guys go.

Yes, I still say Gibbs will be successful (thanks for bringing that up) because most people on this board seem to forget that I add that into nearly every thread. I guess some people see me as trying to save a seat on the bandwagon, but Brud already has one for me -- so that's not necessary. Am I hard on Gibbs. Yep. Am I harder on him than he is on himself? Nope. He's a smart man, and he understands football, but even Jon Jansen said his offense was outdated. We'll see if it works this year, and I'm willing to bet if it doesn't he brings a top notch offensive coordinator in and let Gibbs do what he does best -- coach players, not call offense.

What upgrade did we need at DT? Griffin, Salavea and Noble did more than a good job. They did great in fact.

I agree, our D line has a job, and it's not so much getting sacks. That’s what the blitzing does. It's occupying the line and playing the run. Which we actually have a pretty damn good line for. There's a reason Williams (rumor) told Gibbs not to draft a DE on the first day.

Anyone else feel like a little piece of their childhood is taken from them every time Daseal posts?

First off, I apologize for taking your childhood.

I mean, a lot of us became fans of the Redskins in the 1980s and that was primarily because of Gibbs.

So you mean you guys all jumped on the bandwagon in the 80s and because I think Gibbs system have problems but I'm still a die hard fan I'm not allowed on it? How ironic.

Daseal has decided, for whatever reason, that since he was not part of the first Gibbs era he can't respect it.

I CAN respect what he did, I DO respect what he did, and if you read my posts over half of them say that. However, unlike a majority of the board, I don't feel like his success in the past should fully dictate how we view him now. He did great things in the 80’s, but I feel, and have always felt, that the NFL evolves very quickly and without a doubt it’s much different than Gibbs first go around. What he did in his first era was impressive, and that can never be taken from him. However, that doesn’t automatically make him a winner in this era.

If the Gamecocks go 3-8 next year, is it ok then for us to say "Spurrier might have been a good college coach back in the mid-90s but it's 2005 now.

You always criticize me for bringing Spurrier into arguments, yet for some reason you bring him up much quicker than I do. First of all, Spurrier as a top flight college coach till the 2000’s. In 2005, if he’s not successful, he may have lost a little something. It wouldn’t surprise me at all, but college is much different from the NFL because of recruiting. The gamecocks aren’t exactly the recruiting power Florida was. That said, he gets 3 years in SC just like all of my coaches get.

[quote] This isn't an overnight transformation, this a year, two year, maybe even three year process.[/quote}
Hey, wait. You mean this could take even three years. You mean the amount of time I feel is necessary for most coaches to get their system/players in place. While I remember this board feeling that overnight the Redskins became winners. What happened TAFKAS, where is your optimism. Your pessimism is really dragging me down.

Yet there are those who are already determined to write off the season and Gibbs 2.0. Why? There are those that say give him three years, yet in the same sentence basically say "then in three years I'll say I told you so, that Gibbs couldn't get it done"

I’m assuming you’re referring to me but for some reason decided to omit my name. This just continues to prove that you extract everything bad I say and separate it from the good things I write about Gibbs. Have I written off this season? No. What’s wrong with saying that we’ve heard this before (which we have) and didn’t see any results. I’m as excited about the upcoming season as the next guy, and I don’t care if Satan is coaching the Redskins I’m still watching every game and cheering. I say give every coach three years, but have I ever even mentioned an “I told you so.” If this is referring to me, I dare you to find where I say in no certain terms I told you so. I have a feeling you’re going to struggle to find something. I have said multiple times that Gibbs can get it done. If this wasn’t directed towards me, I’m sorry. If it was – start reading my posts, please.

But also keep in mind, we had an injured WR as our no. 1 receiver, we had a young QB learning a new system, we were missing our RT, and were forced to play a 42-year old guard at tackle. And we had a stellar defense.

Sure we had woes, but our offensive injuries didn’t begin to equate to the problems on our defense as far as injury concerns go. Our injured #1 WR still played well enough with turf toe to go downfield. If he was that big of a liability he should have been sitting next to Brunell week 3. Jansen hurt us without a doubt, but I think not giving Ramsey a real chance to throw only hurt his progression. Give him a chance to put some points up besides when we’re down by a few touchdowns. Our defense was great, but unfortunately, they have a much harder time scoring. I believe the only times we won games was when our defense or special teams scored.

yet the Warpath Grim Reaper (Daseal I'm looking in your direction) has to go again and essentially mock another member for actually having some faith in the team.

How did I essentially mock Redskins_P? We’re going to bring zone blocking in. Thank god! We brought it in last year and it worked. Yet we decided to abandon it. I haven’t mocked any member for having faith in Gibbs yet constantly get knocked for my views. Do I whine or complain about it? No. I know they aren’t the mainstream views, especially on a homer site. The mood is always upbeat and is viewed to a different tune than most of the NFL views us. What I like on this board is the difference of opinions and the debates come down to more than OMG U SUX, NO U SUX MORE type crap you so frequently see on forums. If you felt offended by me saying that it’s about time we start to use more zone blocking, I’m sorry Redskins_P, I didn’t understand that was an insult towards you.

but I know I can't be the only one who is tired of the constant negativity.

I understand. Thanks for cheering us all up!

Here are my views on Gibbs:
What he did in the 80s was amazing. Without a doubt he changed the game of football, which is apparent by his enterance into the NFL hall of fame. An honor reserved for few coaches. However, the NFL is a quickly evolving game and leaving for just a few years can leave you with a lot of new things to adjust to. Last year, he looked shocked on the sideline. He had trouble with the attacking defense, and I think that forced him to chain his offense down. He was so afraid of taking a sack/turnover that he’d rather get very little offensive production and try to stretch the game out. Unfortunately being that conservative is hard to muster today. It’s very hard to win a game without 3 TDs.

When you have a stellar defense you can also afford to take SOME chances. Especially when it’s 3rd and 4-5 in an opponents territory. Throw the ball. I saw many times when it didn’t even look like we were trying for a first down. What sours me is how this site refused to put any of the blame on Gibbs at all for the problems. All these years coaches have been eaten alive for less, and now, all of a sudden, it’s the players. I know you love the man, but why is it so hard to say, yes, he’s doing something wrong. It was part way through the offseason before people started to admit it was more playcalling than execution.

I think our offense has a long way to go, we need to spread the field more and we need to put zone blocking in more often. We need to establish a mid-range passing game to make other teams respect it, and I’m not suggesting a Spurrier-esque offense at all. I want to see Portis carry the team, but he simply won’t be able to till we establish the pass. Something we didn’t get going last year.

Will this year be better? I think so. I feel that Gibbs is willing to make the changes and has had time to recover from the initial shock. He’s a hardworker and I’m sure has analyzed some of the NFL’s best offenses to try to see what works and what doesn’t. I think our offense will improve, yet our defense will slip a bit. I hope I’m wrong, but I think we may head down towards the 5 spot (which isn’t bad at all) as bad as 10.

Does Gibbs deserve respect, absolutely. Does he deserve a free pass, no. I know you guys think I’m pessimistic, but what I say isn’t what half of the other NFL fans say about him. I think we are a little blinded by our faith at times. We always seem to think the Redskins will start winning. Does any other perennial loser have as much faith as we do? Every year it’s our year. Gibbs was a good hire, he’s a great “coach.” If I could pick anyone in the NFL to be simply a leader of men, it would be Gibbs. His motivation techniques and how he builds team camradarie and the whole team aspect is amazing. I have no problem with the man whatsoever. I just feel both his personel and offensive ideals need some tweaking.

I don’t claim to know more than him, nor would I want to. He was a genius in his day, and I hope everything you say comes true. I hope we use zone blocking, try the shotgun, start doing some slant routes (which speedy receivers like Coles can light up, Spurrier ran it all the time and it was one of my favorite plays). We need to establish a passing game and get Portis up to at least 4.x YPC.

I think it’s silly to insult my fandom. If I weren’t a fan why would I keep following every last bit of Redskins news, watch every game religiously, and constantly post on this site? For gods sake, I’m consumed with Redskins pride, though you don’t think so. I stand by my team through thick and thin, and I let anyone who will listen know what I think about it. If my way of looking at things is different from yours – who cares. We all have different views, I know I’m a pessimistic person. I always have been. I don’t like to sugar coat things, and I like to be blunt and to the point.

When it comes down to it I end up defending Gibbs 90% of the time when I’m not on this site. The other viewpoint is always needed and Gibbs does have his share of problems. What NFL coach doesn’t? This team has a long way to go to improve, and most of that pressure is on Gibbs. I just don’t feel as if he should get a free pass when every other coach gets absolutely hounded on this board. In closing, let my give an abridged version of what I think of Gibbs”
His offense needs work, Schemes especially, playcalling needs to be less predictable, May need a offensive coordinator is he doesn’t get the offense going this year or at least by next, will bring the skins to a winning season and probably the playoffs before leaving, Is the best motivator out there. I feel that his legacy from the 80’s and his current state should be viewed as separate. Not completely separate, but this isn’t just a continuation. It’s not like after a super bowl he had a losing season. He took over a decade off, and that takes adjustment. His offense has problems now, but he will win eventually.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Wow. What did I MISS in the past 30 minutes?!

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Let me get this straight, all of us Redskins fans have been so just for all the winning years we've been having? As has been said on this board many times; the team is bigger than any single part of it, which includes a coach or a player.

I simply don't know why all of a sudden I'm not a Redskins fan because I'm skeptical of the changes. Could they happen, sure! How many times did we hear last year that changes would be made that we never saw? That's what worries me.

As a point of clarification, I would just like to say that I was not questioning your being a Redskins fan in my response. I was noting that there are some die hard fans of Joe Gibbs on this site (like myself) who won't turn on him in his toughest time as a coach because we are true fans of HIM whether he is winning or not. And while I don't see how being a fan of Joe Gibbs AND the Skins at the same time has to be mutually exclusive, it is possible to be a fan of the skins without being a fan of Gibbs (ala, you, Daseal). My point is that if you're not a true fan of him now, then don't jump on the bandwagon when he starts winning.

In my opinion (which is worth essentially nothing), you criticize Joe Gibbs entirely too much to ever be considered a fan of his, but your post does help clear some of that negativity/hostility up. All I'm saying is get behind him now, or don't bother later because I don't like fair-weather fans. You are by no means a fair-weather fan of the Skins.......you won't hear me say that about you any more (I know I questioned it once a few months ago). But if you were to be the first to congratulate him and pat him on the back for a job well done after being so critical for so long, THAT, to me, would be hypocritical. Again, you shead some light on your criticism of Gibbs in your last post, so I'm satisfied that you don't hate or completely disrespect the man (which was the impression I had before).

[Daseal]

So I can't be happy when my football teams wins? That's ridiculous. How many people here hated many coaches but stayed behind the team? That's a very silly proposition. Why would that be hypocritical, it means he changed the only problem I have with him, his offense. All I want is for him to make an offense work, I don't think that's too much to ask.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Daseal

So I can't be happy when my football teams wins? That's ridiculous. How many people here hated many coaches but stayed behind the team? That's a very silly proposition. Why would that be hypocritical, it means he changed the only problem I have with him, his offense. All I want is for him to make an offense work, I don't think that's too much to ask.

Let me try this again. All I'm taking issue with is your comment that you'll be the first in line to congratulate Joe Gibbs on a job well done. I believe that to be hypocritical. Celebrate the Skins winning all you want. You're a Skins fan, party on. But if Gibbs proves you wrong, don't pat him on the back like you're buddies.....rather, apologize and admit you were wrong about him. You've said time and time again that your problem with him is that he won't change his system. Well if he does, then you would, in fact, be wrong about him. That's all I'm saying. Nothing more, nothing less.

(And yes I realize you aren't really going to get to shake his hand personally or anything.......I'm just saying if and when he starts winning, expect me to be the first to say "I told you so", and don't try countering with "What? I was always behind Joe Gibbs. I sing his praises all the time now that we're in the playoffs").

[Daseal]

I'm going to wish him a job well done, and if you just read my... well... manifesto.. you'd see that I think he can do it, but like with anyone, there's a chance that they can't. I'm not going to say "I told you so", but I will say congratulations and that he did a good job. Because it is certainly a feat worthy of praise. I _am_ behind Gibbs, just like with any coach. Just because I feel he has problems with his system doesn't mean I don't like him.

[Phinehas]

The word "fan" is short for "fanatic." It refers to an ardent devotee, and there is at least the implication that this devotion isn't particularly rational. For me, there is also the idea of "keeping the faith" tied into fanaticism. No matter how dark things look, WE BELIEVE! We believe irrationaly. We believe fanatically. And it is this belief that carries us through to eventual success. Our unfailing belief buoys the spirits of the players as we cheer them on at games. For if they don't themselves believe, how shall they ever be victorious? So, for me, unrelenting optimism and fanaticism do indeed go hand-in-hand. Realistic fanaticism just seems rather oxymoronic, doesn't it?

That why the Redskins WILL have a great season this year and WILL go to the playoffs. I BELIEVE!

Foolishness? Perhaps. Fanticism? You better believe it! After all, I AM A FAN!

--Phin the Fan

[Redskins_P]

Originally Posted by Phinehas

The word "fan" is short for "fanatic." It refers to an ardent devotee, and there is at least the implication that this devotion isn't particularly rational. For me, there is also the idea of "keeping the faith" tied into fanaticism. No matter how dark things look, WE BELIEVE! We believe irrationaly. We believe fanatically. And it is this belief that carries us through to eventual success. Our unfailing belief buoys the spirits of the players as we cheer them on at games. For if they don't themselves believe, how shall they ever be victorious? So, for me, unrelenting optimism and fanaticism do indeed go hand-in-hand. Realistic fanaticism just seems rather oxymoronic, doesn't it?

That why the Redskins WILL have a great season this year and WILL go to the playoffs. I BELIEVE!

Foolishness? Perhaps. Fanticism? You better believe it! After all, I AM A FAN!

--Phin the Fan

Nice post Phinehas.

[Daseal]

You act as if I go to a game and don't cheer my team on. I saw guys with 'skins Jerseys at the Pittsburgh game just sitting there. I was standing and yelling. I took a lot of shit from the fans around me (Pittsburgh ones of course) but you know what, they also gave me a lot of credit. We talked a lot.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I'm going to wish him a job well done, and if you just read my... well... manifesto.. you'd see that I think he can do it, but like with anyone, there's a chance that they can't. I'm not going to say "I told you so", but I will say congratulations and that he did a good job. Because it is certainly a feat worthy of praise. I _am_ behind Gibbs, just like with any coach. Just because I feel he has problems with his system doesn't mean I don't like him.

I understand. And I noted that your post (manifesto) did clear some things up. I just didn't want you to have the impression that I was saying you aren't a "Redskins" fan. Really that's all I wanted to accomplish in my first response to your post. We can agree to disagree on whether you could be considered a "Joe Gibbs" fan.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

By the way, who would have thought a thread named "Zone blocking" would garner more than 75 posts? LOL