Is it finally time to rebuild??

[Bill B]

The Skins will likely be the most active team in free agency this off-season. As much as I want to build through the draft we just don't have enough picks to do it all in one off-season or even two.
On the bright side what the Skins have done already is clear a lot of bad contracts off their books this season to make room for a lot of free agent additions next year. I think a new CBA will be reached and when it does the Skins will be in good shape and not be working frantically to re-work a bunch of contracts of their high priced vets and in the process hurt outer years with regards to cap space. I don't see the Skins going strong into the restricted FA pool. If they sign a bunch of mid priced FA's to replenish the roster that is fine by me. I think going after the highest priced guys may be a mistake as we have too many holes to fill.

I think a lot people forgot that one of the reasons the Skins had a lot of success in the previous Gibbs years was the team had an owner willing to shovel big bucks in areas like the plan B free agency pool - we simply stockpiled players on our roster as JKC was willing to fork over the money to keep that part of the roster ready to step in as injuries occured. Now Synder obviously overspent on a lot of FA's who were on the tail end of their career and also went along with a FO that traded a lot of their picks for restricted FA's, but I think he and the current team he has in place are not going to have this be their main method of building moving forward. I think we go after a lot of UFA's and also try and find as many gems like Banks as we can. At the same time we keep most of our draft picks and start the process of adding youth via the draft. In summary the silver lining of this season folks over others is we have cleared the books and are in much better shape from a cap perspective compared to other years. Not too mention I have heard that the upcoming 2011 Class is likely to be pretty deep compared to others.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by drew54

Could have resigned Trent Green, but instead gave up 3 draft picks to the Vikings for a 2 year rental of Brad Johnson.

Could have just re-signed BJ too, but Snyder was in love with Jeff George and we know how well that went.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Bill B

The Skins will likely be the most active team in free agency this off-season. As much as I want to build through the draft we just don't have enough picks to do it all in one off-season or even two.
On the bright side what the Skins have done already is clear a lot of bad contracts off their books this season to make room for a lot of free agent additions next year. I think a new CBA will be reached and when it does the Skins will be in good shape and not be working frantically to re-work a bunch of contracts of their high priced vets and in the process hurt outer years with regards to cap space. I don't see the Skins going strong into the restricted FA pool. If they sign a bunch of mid priced FA's to replenish the roster that is fine by me. I think going after the highest priced guys may be a mistake as we have too many holes to fill.

I think a lot people forgot that one of the reasons the Skins had a lot of success in the previous Gibbs years was the team had an owner willing to shovel big bucks in areas like the plan B free agency pool - we simply stockpiled players on our roster as JKC was willing to fork over the money to keep that part of the roster ready to step in as injuries occured. Now Synder obviously overspent on a lot of FA's who were on the tail end of their career and also went along with a FO that traded a lot of their picks for restricted FA's, but I think he and the current team he has in place are not going to have this be their main method of building moving forward. I think we go after a lot of UFA's and also try and find as many gems like Banks as we can. At the same time we keep most of our draft picks and start the process of adding youth via the draft. In summary the silver lining of this season folks over others is we have cleared the books and are in much better shape from a cap perspective compared to other years. Not too mention I have heard that the upcoming 2011 Class is likely to be pretty deep compared to others.

This reminded me again of how much the Bellicheck Pats teams are like Gibbs' old teams. Bellicheck might never admit that, but he was w/the g-men at the time & observed a lot of great skins teams. Just like the plan b free agents, the pats will bring in some old guys to supplement the core of their roster. The difference between the old plan b skins/today's Pats v. the skins of Snyder; those guys did not form the core of the roster like FAs have for us in the last 10 years.

It's not that FA in itself is a flawed approach, it's the strategy & emphasis on it that has killed us.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

This reminded me again of how much the Bellicheck Pats teams are like Gibbs' old teams. Bellicheck might never admit that, but he was w/the g-men at the time & observed a lot of great skins teams. Just like the plan b free agents, the pats will bring in some old guys to supplement the core of their roster. The difference between the old plan b skins/today's Pats v. the skins of Snyder; those guys did not form the core of the roster like FAs have for us in the last 10 years.

It's not that FA in itself is a flawed approach, it's the strategy & emphasis on it that has killed us.

I don't know. I think several of the key players on our 91 team, particularly on defense were FAs. It's so tough to compare eras though

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't know. I think several of the key players on our 91 team, particularly on defense were FAs. It's so tough to compare eras though

Sure, Gathers at DT, Fred Stokes at DE, Matt Millen at MLB, Copeland at SS, Wilbur Marshall at OLB, etc. But they were added to a solid core of homegrown vet skins; D. Green, C. Mann, Monte Coleman, K. Gouevia, M. Mayhew, & Pettibon had been there for years.

The parallel to me is that Gibbs could get an old once good/great player like Matt Millen to play a vital role, just the way Bellicheck has w/ old free agents like Junior Seau, Moss, Fred Taylor, etc.

My main point is, if the team is solid & has an established coaching staff & system, vet free agents can come in and play important roles right away. That's where I see the parallel between Gibbs' 1 & Bellicheck.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

I knew that this year we were seeing Rebuilding whether they wanted to admit it or not.

Yeah,.the rebuilding process started when Vinny was canned and Allen was brought in. I don't know why so many people won't admit it.

I knew this would be a transition/rebuliding year, with more success in year #2.


Of course, I had blindly optimistic hopes for the team...I always do as a true fan...but there was a LOT to fix with a 4-12 team with no offensive line whatsoever...more than could be fixed in a single year.

We've made a lot more progress than our record shows. I'm a bit worried about the defensive scheme, but individuals have played well on defense. The 4-3 to 3-4 move is rarely smooth.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Bill B

The Skins will likely be the most active team in free agency this off-season. As much as I want to build through the draft we just don't have enough picks to do it all in one off-season or even two.
On the bright side what the Skins have done already is clear a lot of bad contracts off their books this season to make room for a lot of free agent additions next year. I think a new CBA will be reached and when it does the Skins will be in good shape and not be working frantically to re-work a bunch of contracts of their high priced vets and in the process hurt outer years with regards to cap space. I don't see the Skins going strong into the restricted FA pool. If they sign a bunch of mid priced FA's to replenish the roster that is fine by me. I think going after the highest priced guys may be a mistake as we have too many holes to fill.

I think a lot people forgot that one of the reasons the Skins had a lot of success in the previous Gibbs years was the team had an owner willing to shovel big bucks in areas like the plan B free agency pool - we simply stockpiled players on our roster as JKC was willing to fork over the money to keep that part of the roster ready to step in as injuries occured. Now Synder obviously overspent on a lot of FA's who were on the tail end of their career and also went along with a FO that traded a lot of their picks for restricted FA's, but I think he and the current team he has in place are not going to have this be their main method of building moving forward. I think we go after a lot of UFA's and also try and find as many gems like Banks as we can. At the same time we keep most of our draft picks and start the process of adding youth via the draft. In summary the silver lining of this season folks over others is we have cleared the books and are in much better shape from a cap perspective compared to other years. Not too mention I have heard that the upcoming 2011 Class is likely to be pretty deep compared to others.

You're probably right cause Shanahan doesn't come here for a rebuilding job. So they're going to go out and overpay some guys and it won't work cause it never works and we're right back to square one. I just wish they'd realize that there is no such thing as a quick fix.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

You're probably right cause Shanahan doesn't come here for a rebuilding job. So they're going to go out and overpay some guys and it won't work cause it never works and we're right back to square one. I just wish they'd realize that there is no such thing as a quick fix.

We've had 1 offseason w/Allen & Shan, do you think they "overpaid" anybody? They didn't sign AH, that was on Vinny's watch. They just brought in reasonable contracts this year & a no. of undrafted players or guys recently cut by other teams, e.g. Torain, Armstrong, Lichtensteiger.

While I expect that we'll be busy in free agency due to the needs of the team & the no. of good players availalbe, I expect Allen to keep the signing bonuses in check, that's what he's known for. For the really good free agents I expect deals like McNabb's; potential big $ but an easy out for the team if it doesn't go well.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Buster

Yeah,.the rebuilding process started when Vinny was canned and Allen was brought in. I don't know why so many people won't admit it.

I knew this would be a transition/rebuliding year, with more success in year #2.


Of course, I had blindly optimistic hopes for the team...I always do as a true fan...but there was a LOT to fix with a 4-12 team with no offensive line whatsoever...more than could be fixed in a single year.

We've made a lot more progress than our record shows. I'm a bit worried about the defensive scheme, but individuals have played well on defense. The 4-3 to 3-4 move is rarely smooth.

Agree the Skins changed course when Vinny turned in the keys to the executive wash room. And I defnitely agree the change in course was a positive one.

I must say however that I really do not know how much Bruce Allen has had to do with the new direction of the team - - other than to be a figurehead and a pointman for marketing/PR/communications activities. It sure looks to me as if Mike Shanahan is the main man and Bruce Allen handles contracts and salary caps and community stuff only.

[MTK]

BA is definitely involved with personnel to a degree.

[SmootSmack]

Bruce Allen was instrumental in bringing Joey Galloway here...make of that what you will

[GTripp0012]

Doing game breakdown now...

I would pay $20 to watch a Rocky McIntosh lowlight reel. He's not bad in the same way that Casey Rabach is bad (the "why are you in the NFL" way). McIntosh LOOKS like a pretty imposing LB before the snap. He's just a dreadful, mistake-prone LB after the snap. A big reason why we have struggled against the run this year.

Not as big of a reason as Kedric Golston being out of position, but still.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Agree the Skins changed course when Vinny turned in the keys to the executive wash room. And I defnitely agree the change in course was a positive one.

I must say however that I really do not know how much Bruce Allen has had to do with the new direction of the team - - other than to be a figurehead and a pointman for marketing/PR/communications activities. It sure looks to me as if Mike Shanahan is the main man and Bruce Allen handles contracts and salary caps and community stuff only.

Pretty major stuff! He's ushered in a new era of fiscal responsibility thus far.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Pretty major stuff! He's ushered in a new era of fiscal responsibility thus far.

Biggest payroll in the NFC and that's fiscal responsibility?

How many new/additional scouts did he hire for the Redskins - - collegiate scouts and pro player scouts? I believe the answer would be ZERO. And that makes improvement on your drafting and free agency evaluations more of a "random thing" than an organizational commitment.

The Skins need to rebuild. They do not have the infrastructure to do that - - because they do not have the organizational commitment to do that.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Trading draft picks for older players (over 30) has happened much much much less frequently than we fans seem to want to think it has. Aside from McNabb, how many times have we done that in recent years? I'm sure there have been a couple other times, but I really can't think of them

Gonzalez got traded at around 32/33 for a second round pick so it's certainly possible. Cooley would obviously be a tough choice but if they're not going to use the two tight end sets then it wouldn't be a bad idea to trade him for a second round pick. Then again Shanon Sharpe was productive all the way through his career which finally ended when he was 35.

Rebuilding is about making tough decisions going forward. If we're committed to a rebuild then I say we strongly consider dealing Cooley for a second round pick.