Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by redsk1

Yea, i'm all for second chances. But it amazes me that some can cast aside years and years of bad behavior w/ a couple months of good behavior and say he's a changed man.

What if we lose some games? How's he going to act then? Anyone?

The skins have made it a priority to bring in high quality guys over the last 5 years. They've done a great job at it. I don't think this one is one of them.

Did we go undefeated with him here? Did I miss something?

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Why do you trust Bodden and not Hall?

I haven't seen him make half the bonehead moves (personal fouls) that Hall makes and is a hell of a lot cheaper + he can play.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by redsk1

Yea, i'm all for second chances. But it amazes me that some can cast aside years and years of bad behavior w/ a couple months of good behavior and say he's a changed man.

What if we lose some games? How's he going to act then? Anyone?

The skins have made it a priority to bring in high quality guys over the last 5 years. They've done a great job at it. I don't think this one is one of them.

Please outline the 'years and years' of bad behavior, I'd love to hear and see the evidence on that one. He was not a problem for Jim Mora in Atlanta. EVERYONE had a problem with Bobby Petrino. We never heard of any off the field incidents with Oakland. He was a model citizen in DC.

You asked about how is he going to act when we lose some games? That's pretty much all we did when he was here last year, how did he act then?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

I haven't seen him make half the bonehead moves (personal fouls) that Hall makes and is a hell of a lot cheaper + he can play.

He couldn't even start for the Lions...and he complained about it (for those thinking he's a golden boy)

He's cheaper because he's not as good

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

He couldn't even start for the Lions...and he complained about it (for those thinking he's a golden boy)

He's cheaper because he's not as good

We'll shall see how good Hall is. I'll remind you later.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is that much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

Domonique Foxworth

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

I haven't seen him make half the bonehead moves (personal fouls) that Hall makes and is a hell of a lot cheaper + he can play.

The only foul that Hall committed as a Redskins was....

vs. Giants
PENALTY on WAS-D.Hall, Personal Foul, 8 yards, enforced at WAS 16. Late hit

So I don't know what other personal fouls you are talking about. I looked it up, if you don't trust me then go to ESPN, go the the Redskins schedule, click on each game and check the Play-by-Play.

[GTripp0012]

Glad Hall is back. Unfortunately, this is the kind of contract that usually screws the team over, assuming the 22 million guarenteed figure is correct.

Nothing Hall has ever done in his career suggests he's worth that much money, so the team is paying for potential. Too often, players get paid for what they are not instead of what they are.

Meanwhile, the Patriots get to talk to Springs now with no serious financial commitment.

This, unquestionably, is a bad contract. Whether we spend the next three years talking about how bad the contract is, or how good a player Hall is -- that's totally up to Hall.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

The only foul that Hall committed as a Redskins was....

vs. Giants
PENALTY on WAS-D.Hall, Personal Foul, 8 yards, enforced at WAS 16. Late hit

So I don't know what other personal fouls you are talking about. I looked it up, if you don't trust me then go to ESPN, go the the Redskins schedule, click on each game and check the Play-by-Play.

He had another one (can't remember the game) but when he was with Atlanta and Oakland it was pretty common. Did you watch the first Oakland game against Denver? He had like 3 PF and was getting burned left and right.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is that much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

Domonique Foxworth

For those interested:

Scouts' Report on D. Hall

2008 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 83 | Key
Alert: None
Comment: Hall started 15-of-16 games last year. He's a very good athlete with adequate size. He's a quick-twitch athlete who can flip his hips and accelerate extremely well. He has a rare burst in his movements with very good confidence in his recovery skills. If he misses a jam, he does not stay in a trail position very long. He does an excellent job of mirroring all types of routes. He has the ability to maintain leverage on receivers downfield with some suddenness to undercut routes at the break points. He's very smooth with his speed turns and flips. He also has good solid route recognition and ball skills. He has very good ball awareness with good timing on his reach to break up or intercept passes. He has a knack for reading a receivers' body reaction with his back to the quarterback. Hall has long arms for his size and good vertical leaping ability to go up and adjust. When he's playing off he will often open his hips early. He doesn't stay in his pedal very long and he has had some trouble versus quick outs and hitches. He also has a tendency to bite on double moves because he is so aggressive. However, he has excellent reactions to screens and check downs. He closes hard and fast off his plant and drive. As a tackler, he doesn't always wrap up, but is an effective block tackler who can take out a runners' legs quickly with surprising closing quickness.

And Scouts' Report on Foxworth:

2008 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 67 | Key
Alert: None
Comment: Foxworth, a four-year veteran, is a backup who sees a lot of action as Denver's primary nickelback. He is a good athlete who has the quick feet and loose hips to smoothly turn and run with receivers. He's quick in transition and shows a good burst to close on the ball. He has a nice recovery burst to catch up when a receiver does manage to get a step on him downfield. He can extend the cushion with his backpedal and shows good route recognition from zone. He lacks ideal size and strength. He can be overpowered by bigger receivers and he isn't the strongest tackler in run support. He has improved his ability to locate the ball as a receiver reacts, but his ball skills still need some work. Foxworth seems on track to win a starting job somewhere in the near future, but his size limitations will prevent him from rising to elite status.

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is that much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

Domonique Foxworth

Given he's been to two pro bowls and had at least 5 ints in his last 3 sesons I would think so. He's not worth 22.5 mil but he's worth a hella alot more than the Foxworth contract.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is that much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

Domonique Foxworth

To me, these guys are identical players. And that's a lot of money for Foxworth as well.

I think the correct move would have been to wait this one out. Hall is part of a large glut of No. 2 corners available on the market this year, and inevitably, the ones that last the longest will be paid the least.

So by waiting it out, we could have saved 10-15 million in guaranteed money. This would have also forced us to accept that Hall might have got impatient and bolted. To me, that's an "oh well" kind of thing. But from Snyder's perspective, Hall is far more marketable to the Redskins than is Bodden or Bly (both local kids as well), and in this case the price of getting Hall over whoever the market left on the table was one year of Shawn Springs' career.

To me, that's not worth it, it kills our depth in the short term. To others on this form, I think the contract may be justifiable, especially if you don't see Springs as any loss at all.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is that much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

Domonique Foxworth

Here's what I want to know:

We were negotiating with Hall for the past few weeks, but it was my understanding that the stumbling block was the fact that we wanted to give him $12-$14M in guarantees and he wanted $16M. So how in the HELL do we end up giving almost $10M more in guarantees than we were originally offering (and $6.5M more than he was asking for)???

This makes no sense whatsoever to me. Anyone who can explain, that would be great.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Please outline the 'years and years' of bad behavior, I'd love to hear and see the evidence on that one. He was not a problem for Jim Mora in Atlanta. EVERYONE had a problem with Bobby Petrino. We never heard of any off the field incidents with Oakland. He was a model citizen in DC.

You asked about how is he going to act when we lose some games? That's pretty much all we did when he was here last year, how did he act then?

He was a known as a "me" guy at VA Tech and not a good teammate for the 3 years he was there (i think 3). He was a bad loser in ATL and what was called a locker room cancer. Oakland cut him for god sakes. What does that tell you?

He has been a model citizen here for all of about 2-3 months b/c he needs another contract.

Listen, I hope he does well here. I hope he shuts up and plays like he did for 2 months. I just gotta see it. He's been 3 places and has got a bad rep at all 3.

[GTripp0012]

The good news is that this contract should NOT prevent us from getting something long term done with Rogers at a later date. It simply cost us valuable depth in Springs.