Campbell's numbers dont lie

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Why are all the former Campbell-supporters suddenly against him now? His play now isn't any worse as it was last year or the year before when we were saying he wasn't the right QB for this team. His completion percentage has actually IMPROVED a little every year. So what's changed your minds about Campbell? Or is it just a case of not seeing the improvement you were hoping for?

I'm a Campbell supporter that hasn't turned on him but I am disappointed in what I've seen from him this year. I expected him to be much, much more productive when given the opportunities. I'm really starting to fear he's been Ramsey-fied. He's not playing QB, he's playing the role of a robot QB trying to be perfect and please his coach. He needs a major dose of 'f**k it' and just go out and play.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by irish

But what numbers is he putting up? His rating is good but he completes passes for very little yardage which means he throws a bunch of dink passes that skews his rating for the better.

As I pointed out last week, he's got a higher YPA than Brady, McNabb, Cutler, Warner & Palmer. Seriously, it's sad how misinformed his detractors are.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

As I pointed out last week, he's got a higher YPA than Brady, McNabb, Cutler, Warner & Palmer. Seriously, it's sad how misinformed his detractors are.

Those players you mention throw down the field and miss more often than a 2 yard dink passer. Those misses are zeros in calculating the average and those zeros bring down the average. Like others have said, the numbers dont tell the whole story because to insinuate that JC is even close to those QBs you mentioned is insane.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I'm a Campbell supporter that hasn't turned on him but I am disappointed in what I've seen from him this year. I expected him to be much, much more productive when given the opportunities. I'm really starting to fear he's been Ramsey-fied. He's not playing QB, he's playing the role of a robot QB trying to be perfect and please his coach. He needs a major dose of 'f**k it' and just go out and play.

I think, if we had stuck with the offense Gibbs drafted Campbell for, and we had given a top 10 offensive line, he could have become a really good QB in the NFL, perhaps even a franchise QB (although not an elite guy like Brady or Manning). However, those weren't the cards he was dealt. At the point Cerrato decided to hire Jim Zorn as head coach, it ruined Campbells chances of having becoming a franchise QB. Campbell was a square peg. the WCO is his round hole. It NEVER had a good chance of working. I don't know why so many people put faith in it.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by irish

Those players you mention throw down the field and miss more often than a 2 yard dink passer. Those misses are zeros in calculating the average and those zeros bring down the average. Like others have said, the numbers dont tell the whole story because to insinuate that JC is even close to those QBs you mentioned is insane.

So the deep passes Campbell missed on the past few weeks didn't count in his average? Completion percentage would be highly driven by 2 yard dink passes, yards per attempt would be adversely affected by a majority of those.

I didn't compare him to any of those QB, simply pointed out the gaping flaw in your simplistic and inaccurate criticism.

[JLee9718]

I really feel for JC, but I would rather have another QB that can make decisions faster. A start is to go with Collins like the second half of yesterday's game. It didn't work out because we lost the game and Zorn lost his play-calling duties. Talk about a fall from grace...

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I think, if we had stuck with the offense Gibbs drafted Campbell for, and we had given a top 10 offensive line, he could have become a really good QB in the NFL, perhaps even a franchise QB (although not an elite guy like Brady or Manning). However, those weren't the cards he was dealt. At the point Cerrato decided to hire Jim Zorn as head coach, it ruined Campbells chances of having becoming a franchise QB. Campbell was a square peg. the WCO is his round hole. It NEVER had a good chance of working. I don't know why so many people put faith in it.

Well, that's what makes us fans I guess. I really think that Gibbs over-coached him to the point where he's so terrified of turnovers he is still overcoming that over protective nature that was instilled in him.

[MTK]

Sounds like we're back to the old Ramsey debate, that Gibbs somehow ruined him too. Sorry not buying it. JC has had the same issues he's had since day 1. His decision making has always been a step slow and nothing has changed in that area. He's admitted as much. He is what he is. He's probably got a good career ahead of him as a #2 in this league. I'm officially off his wagon.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

So the deep passes Campbell missed on the past few weeks didn't count in his average? Completion percentage would be highly driven by 2 yard dink passes, yards per attempt would be adversely affected by a majority of those.

I didn't compare him to any of those QB, simply pointed out the gaping flaw in your simplistic and inaccurate criticism.

Sure it counts, he throws maybe 2 passes longer than a few yards per game so he doesnt have many zeros. The other QBs throw a lot more longers passes.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Sounds like we're back to the old Ramsey debate, that Gibbs somehow ruined him too. Sorry not buying it. JC has had the same issues he's had since day 1. His decision making has always been a step slow and nothing has changed in that area. He's admitted as much. He is what he is. He's probably got a good career ahead of him as a #2 in this league. I'm officially off his wagon.

Fair enough, I'll stop sort of saying that Gibbs 'ruined him' but while he may have been a good 'fit' for Gibbs system, I don't think he was a good fit with Gibbs.

Enough about that though, his lack of development and production this season has been disappointing to me-but I don't know that anyone else will do anything better behind this line.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Well, that's what makes us fans I guess. I really think that Gibbs over-coached him to the point where he's so terrified of turnovers he is still overcoming that over protective nature that was instilled in him.

I don't know. Campbell's forcing a lot of throws and committing a lot of errors.

We knew coming in that his low turnover rate wasn't sustainable, and he'd have to throw for more yards and TDs to cover for it. So far, he's done that, but thanks to the makeup of the rest of the offense, it hasn't helped translate to points. The additional points added by extending drives have been completely offset by the increase in turnovers. The run game has been spotty at best, which hasn't helped things.

I don't think the WCO is the issue, I just think that this is what we've built. Last year (first five games), we had five good or great players on offense: Kendall, Samuels, Portis, Campbell, and Cooley. As the year went on, Samuels and Portis became ineffective players for one reason or another, and that left us with three. Kendall walked in the offseason (he was probably having a career year anyway), and we replaced him, shrewedly, but with a mediocre Dockery.

With Samuels on the mend, Campbell and Cooley are the only things this offense has besides deception. If we bench Campbell, then it's just Cooley. There's probably no way to score points with just a QB and TE, and certainly no way to score with just a TE.

Thing is, we're getting better contribution on the marginal players this year than last year. Which is one of the things that led me to project an above average offense, and 11 wins. But there's just been no breakout on offense from either Campbell or anyone else.

Of course, in hindsight, Campbell did breakout last year. This is simply the limit of his value in an offense like the Redskins. Sadly, it's not good enough, and will never be.

[GTripp0012]

The other thing is the career year factor: not one player on our offense is having a career year (jury is still out on Heyer, though), which is just a bit disappointing. Last year, Portis and Kendall had career years. In 2005, it was Moss. In 2006, Cooley, Dockery, and Betts. In 2007, Todd Collins. This year, it's remarkably been no one so far, which is why we're so far underneath any projection for our offense.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by irish

Those players you mention throw down the field and miss more often than a 2 yard dink passer. Those misses are zeros in calculating the average and those zeros bring down the average. Like others have said, the numbers dont tell the whole story because to insinuate that JC is even close to those QBs you mentioned is insane.

I don't think you understand what YPA is. It's also one of the four components in QB rating, so by extension, you don't really know what that is either.

[GTripp0012]

Campbell is having a much better season than McNabb is this year, and we're talking about a guy who was benched in the second half of a game last year. So, I mean, take that at face value.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The other thing is the career year factor: not one player on our offense is having a career year (jury is still out on Heyer, though), which is just a bit disappointing. Last year, Portis and Kendall had career years. In 2005, it was Moss. In 2006, Cooley, Dockery, and Betts. This year, it's remarkably been no one so far, which is why we're so far underneath any projection for our offense.

Shaun Suisham wants to know why you're a hater