The Gibbs Hypocrisy!

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by illdefined

its not about Brunell? its about anybody who's next because those 20 minutes were so horrid? and when Brunell gets his first turnover, does it go to Campbell? Ramsey? probably not huh. Gibbs has his favorites, there's no denying it.

Do you really think Gibbs decison was based on just the 20 minutes of game 1? Even during 2004 summer (offseason) Gibbs watched all of the film of Ramsey and he still brought in Brunell. He saw the same things I see in Ramsey, he really was not very then and is still not good right now. Why is that so hard to accept?
Go ahead and keep on blaming Gibbs and Brunell. The truth is it is ultimatley Ramsey fault for not improving his game.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Do you really think Gibbs decison was based on just the 20 minutes of game 1? Even during 2004 summer (offseason) Gibbs watched all of the film of Ramsey and he still brought in Brunell. He saw the same things I see in Ramsey, he really was not very then and is still not good right now. Why is that so hard to accept?
Go ahead and keep on blaming Gibbs and Brunell. The truth is it is ultimatley Ramsey fault for not improving his game.

why won't ANYBODY hold Brunell accountable for being the worst QB in the league last year? and why did everyone FORGET that Ramsey WON games with the exact same *bad* offense? these are regular season games, is it ok to base your decisions on regular season games? you guys would rather choose based on second halves of preseason games with and against 2nd stringers versus what happened the ENTIRE 2004 SEASON?

Brunell himself says there was NO injury, says his arm ISN'T any stronger than last year (go ahead ask me for the quotes), and i'm fairly certain he didn't get any younger. he sure looked good in practice against friends or the second half in those preseason games though didn't he?

would YOU base your decisions on that and just ignore last season (or Brunell's own comments) or do you all just have blind faith in Joe Gibbs? if so, THATS FINE, BUT SAY SO. don't ever say Brunell "outplayed" Ramsey in any game that counted, because he *never has*.

and before anybody in the blind faith category tries to say last season doesn't matter (but the 80s somehow does), i think there's an established consensus that Gibbs was wrong about Brunell before. if you need proof of his fallibility just look to last season.


Coach Gibbs is and will be the best coach the Skins have ever had , but you can't expect it to be instant or that what he knew from the past applies perfectly to today. it will take time.

[Cooley 350Z]

I don't want to get into any name calling or anything, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so here's mine. I was at the game & just went back & watched the broadcast that I tivo'd to make sure I saw it all. More than anything, I feel bad for Patrick Ramsey. I feel like Gibbs is giving him a raw deal, and ultimately I feel like he is making a huge mistake. Trust me, if I'm wrong & Brunell turns out to be the right choice I will absolutely feel like a Munson. However, P.R. in my opinion looked pretty good & getting better before Briggs made an absolutely unmistakable illegal-hit. Brunell didn't look like anything special to me. I'm not looking at this in any other way than as a man, and that is why I feel Gibbs is in the wrong. Tear me apart if you want, thats just my two-cents. In the end we're all just huge fans of a team I so desperately want to see back in the legendary status it deserves.

hail.

[diehardskin2982]

brunnel is better on his feet and won't make stupid mistakes like Ramsey. This next game is by far the most important game for us and we better play it as such.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by offiss

I know this is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way so I will offer an apology to those who take offense, other than that to bad!

Gibbs states that we can't turn the ball over, and he wont tolerate it, Brunell 2004 9 TO's in 9 games. 2 of which directly lost us 2 games.

Gibbs now states that basically Brunells hamstring was the reason why he was as incompetent as he was last season, [maybe the worst QBing we have ever seen] yet he played his best game of the year 1 week after his supposed injury against dallas, and now we here all about his big time hammy.

Gibbs promises Brunell the starters position and gives him 9 games to play himself out of the starters position, given the fact that Brunell is a very experinced veteran who shouldn't need the same kind of a learning curve as let's say a young QB like Ramsey.

Ramsey is promised the starters job, after 1 early INT in his first regular season game with his new recieving corps he begins to move the ball up and down the field, at which point after 19 minutes Gibbs say's he's seen enough and has to go back to the teachers pet before Ramsey possibly does something to prevent him from getting Brunell back to starters status, so he doesn't look like an absolute incompetent fool for making that deal to get Brunell here in the first place. We cannot gloss over the fact that Gibbs cost his employer 42 million dollars, couple that with a system back like Portis for another 50 mil. that sure would motivate me to try and force a square peg through a round hole, imagine having to tell your employer you just cost them almost 100 mil and it's not working. And so long as Ramsey starts, thats what's being said.

Gibbs makes the move, which is probably the first I can remember a QB who is moving the ball, and if not for a lousy call would have just directed a TD drive, yanked, usually a QB is lifted because he can't move the ball, [unless your last name is Brunell] but the switch is made AFTER 1 QUARTER OF THE FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON, then to watch Brunell in almost 3 quarters of play muster up 3 field goals, and 70 yards of passing, and say this is my starter.

Somewhere Bobby Beathard is shaking his head.

Yes,I am rubbed the wrong way.

Most of what you say is your opinion which you are entitled to. The only thing I take exception to is phrase "Ramsey is promised the starters job". There are no promises in pro football. Ramsey was #1 on the depth chart, but in the only opinion that counts he played his way down to #2. And lets be honest it was more than 1 quarter of football....preseason may not count in the standings but in terms of player evaluation it sure does count.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by celts32

Yes,I am rubbed the wrong way.

Most of what you say is your opinion which you are entitled to. The only thing I take exception to is phrase "Ramsey is promised the starters job". There are no promises in pro football. Ramsey was #1 on the depth chart, but in the only opinion that counts he played his way down to #2. And lets be honest it was more than 1 quarter of football....preseason may not count in the standings but in terms of player evaluation it sure does count.

Really, and here I thought it was the regular season that count's, we all saw what happened last year, apparently Brunell beat out Ramsey in the pre-season, then what? Well anyone who watched the games knows what happened, Brunell proceded to play the QB position about as bad as anyone has ever seen, against inferior competition, Ramsey comes in against Pitt, Phila twice, minnesota, 4 of his 6 games go against playoff teams, and 3 of those games against the best defenses in the NFL, and a lose to dallas that if Gibbs didn't go into his conservative shell on our last series and allow dallas another shot at us we would have won.

So I am very curious about pre season evaluation, obviously Gibbs didn't have a clue about evaluating Brunell last season, what makes you think when he was so far off then that he's got it right now?

As far as promises go there are promises, like giving a player a chance to prove himself, Gibbs sure stuck by his word for Brunell last season, and he was as horrible as I have ever seen, Ramsey gets 19 minutes and just finished what should have been a TD drive and that's all folks!


Bottom line for all the Brunell fans out there, 70 yds passing in almost 3 quarters, there's your sharpshooter in a nut shell!

And correction, all of what I have said is my opinion!

[celts32]

Originally Posted by offiss

Really, and here I thought it was the regular season that count's, we all saw what happened last year, apparently Brunell beat out Ramsey in the pre-season, then what? Well anyone who watched the games knows what happened, Brunell proceded to play the QB position about as bad as anyone has ever seen, against inferior competition, Ramsey comes in against Pitt, Phila twice, minnesota, 4 of his 6 games go against playoff teams, and 3 of those games against the best defenses in the NFL, and a lose to dallas that if Gibbs didn't go into his conservative shell on our last series and allow dallas another shot at us we would have won.

So I am very curious about pre season evaluation, obviously Gibbs didn't have a clue about evaluating Brunell last season, what makes you think when he was so far off then that he's got it right now?

As far as promises go there are promises, like giving a player a chance to prove himself, Gibbs sure stuck by his word for Brunell last season, and he was as horrible as I have ever seen, Ramsey gets 19 minutes and just finished what should have been a TD drive and that's all folks!


Bottom line for all the Brunell fans out there, 70 yds passing in almost 3 quarters, there's your sharpshooter in a nut shell!

And correction, all of what I have said is my opinion!

I am not a Brunell fan, I am a Joe Gibbs fan. All I care about is the redskins winning. Gibbs obviously doesn't think Ramsey can play. I had high hopes for Ramsey, so it's dissapointing. I just think Gibbs knows who can play QB in his offense better than I do.

Professional football is a harsh business. Ramsey may have been named the starter, but there were no promises made as to how long he would hold it.

[overthehillgang]

With Brunell (the cannon) leading us Monday night, John Hall's thigh could become very big if he is not 100%. We need at least 5 field goals to beat them.

[Longtimefan]

I'm in the hundred's now reading all the various post both pro and con relative to this great humanatarian crisis facing our beloved football team. Matty I ageee with your assesment of Patrick Ramsey in that it seems to more closely resemble how Gibbs feels about him as well. I see nothing hypocritical about the move, as a matter of fact I saw it coming at the end of last season for those of us truly famaliar with how JG operates. Gibbs ringing endorsements of Brunell at the end of last season lend credence to the fact we would see Brunell again this season at the most convenient opportunity. I have said many times before I could understand all the unflappable support for Ramsey if he had actually accomplished something in Burgandy and Gold, but that is not the case. We've all seen Brunell play and it's not like he's the savior, but I concur in Gibbs thinking that at this particular time he may offer us the best chance at winning. Just because Gibbs named Ramsey the starter means absolutely nothing unless he's going to play well enough to maintain the status. Nothing is a given in the NFL you have to earn it. Ramsey is like the Cow that gives a good bucket of Milk then kicks it over. To demonstrate now that he was ever truly worthy of the lofty status bestowed upon him he must demonstrate he's a team player and not let his pouting attitude be a disruptive influence on the rest of the team. Depending on his attitude it could be that he might have another opportunity this season if things don't go well with Brunell. Save for his attitude Gibbs just might turn to Campbell if the latter does not work to his satisfaction.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

Just because Gibbs named Ramsey the starter means absolutely nothing unless he's going to play well enough to maintain the status. Nothing is a given in the NFL you have to earn it. Ramsey is like the Cow that gives a good bucket of Milk then kicks it over.

Good points. I was thinking of another cow analogy. I forget how it goes exactly, but it's something like "you want the steak but don't want to know how they slaughtered the cow."

Basically, above all else Gibbs has said he wants to bring another Super Bowl trophy to the Redskins. And I think that's what we all want. Along the way, some mistakes will be made, feelings could get hurt, players will get frustrated, and so on. It's not going to be pretty, and it wasn't always pretty all the other times Gibbs won Super Bowls. But nothing comes easy anyway

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

I'm in the hundred's now reading all the various post both pro and con relative to this great humanatarian crisis facing our beloved football team. Matty I ageee with your assesment of Patrick Ramsey in that it seems to more closely resemble how Gibbs feels about him as well. I see nothing hypocritical about the move, as a matter of fact I saw it coming at the end of last season for those of us truly famaliar with how JG operates. Gibbs ringing endorsements of Brunell at the end of last season lend credence to the fact we would see Brunell again this season at the most convenient opportunity. I have said many times before I could understand all the unflappable support for Ramsey if he had actually accomplished something in Burgandy and Gold, but that is not the case. We've all seen Brunell play and it's not like he's the savior, but I concur in Gibbs thinking that at this particular time he may offer us the best chance at winning. Just because Gibbs named Ramsey the starter means absolutely nothing unless he's going to play well enough to maintain the status. Nothing is a given in the NFL you have to earn it. Ramsey is like the Cow that gives a good bucket of Milk then kicks it over. To demonstrate now that he was ever truly worthy of the lofty status bestowed upon him he must demonstrate he's a team player and not let his pouting attitude be a disruptive influence on the rest of the team. Depending on his attitude it could be that he might have another opportunity this season if things don't go well with Brunell. Save for his attitude Gibbs just might turn to Campbell if the latter does not work to his satisfaction.

And Brunell is like the guy milking the bull!

[STPainmaker]

LOL but I think people should chill abit. Everyone is upset but if Joe Gibbs told me that he thought player A was better than player B in his offense, with his other players I would believe it.
Everyone is however entitled to their own opinion, but we are all just speculating because neither of these guys has really outperformed the other.

[Big Oh]

Originally Posted by offiss

I know this is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way so I will offer an apology to those who take offense, other than that to bad!

Gibbs states that we can't turn the ball over, and he wont tolerate it, Brunell 2004 9 TO's in 9 games. 2 of which directly lost us 2 games.

Gibbs now states that basically Brunells hamstring was the reason why he was as incompetent as he was last season, [maybe the worst QBing we have ever seen] yet he played his best game of the year 1 week after his supposed injury against dallas, and now we here all about his big time hammy.

Gibbs promises Brunell the starters position and gives him 9 games to play himself out of the starters position, given the fact that Brunell is a very experinced veteran who shouldn't need the same kind of a learning curve as let's say a young QB like Ramsey.

Ramsey is promised the starters job, after 1 early INT in his first regular season game with his new recieving corps he begins to move the ball up and down the field, at which point after 19 minutes Gibbs say's he's seen enough and has to go back to the teachers pet before Ramsey possibly does something to prevent him from getting Brunell back to starters status, so he doesn't look like an absolute incompetent fool for making that deal to get Brunell here in the first place. We cannot gloss over the fact that Gibbs cost his employer 42 million dollars, couple that with a system back like Portis for another 50 mil. that sure would motivate me to try and force a square peg through a round hole, imagine having to tell your employer you just cost them almost 100 mil and it's not working. And so long as Ramsey starts, thats what's being said.

Gibbs makes the move, which is probably the first I can remember a QB who is moving the ball, and if not for a lousy call would have just directed a TD drive, yanked, usually a QB is lifted because he can't move the ball, [unless your last name is Brunell] but the switch is made AFTER 1 QUARTER OF THE FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON, then to watch Brunell in almost 3 quarters of play muster up 3 field goals, and 70 yards of passing, and say this is my starter.

Somewhere Bobby Beathard is shaking his head.

NUFF SAID!!!

[illdefined]

you're all conveniently forgetting Brunell was the worst QB in the NFL last year over a couple good showings in preseason games (and dismissing Ramsey's wins with the same exact team last season).

you can't ever call Philly fans bad, you're just as what-have-you-done-for-me-lately.

[Hog1]

NOUN:
pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
An act or instance of such falseness.

The thing I am not sure of, was it Gibb's or PR who shot JFK?