w/o of next year

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by offiss

In all do respect SC on Jacobs, all I hear on this board is how it takes a reciever 3 years before they mature and become all they can be, yet if a reciever doesn't go crazy his first 2 years he's knocked for it, Jacob's had a freak injury most of his rookie season under SS, and lets face it Gibbs didn't show the greatest of judgement in personel last season, he went and played Gardner all year long to find out what most of us on this board already new, Gardner will burn you every time, and he left Ramseys favorite target inactive most of the season. Jacobs has shown he has the physical ability, he just needs an offense that will get him more involved, and that's Gibbs job.

1) I have heard maybe two or three people say it take a WR three years to develop, not many more. I do not agree that it takes three years. WR is one of the few postions (RB the other) where a talented rookie can come in and play right away. QB on the other hand is much more difficult.

2) Regarding Jacobs freak accident/injury during his rookie season, it caused him to only miss 1/4 of his rookie season. He was on the sideline and ready to play for most of the other games that year. IMO Jacob just did not show enough in practice to earn a starting position and displace another starting WR.

3) Correct me if I am wrong, are you saying Jacobs was/is Ramsey's favorite target? When last season did Jacobs become Ramsey's favorite target? I must have missed that memo. It seemed clear to me that L. Coles and Cooley were Ramsey's favorite targets last year.

4) Regarding who's job it is to get Jacobs more involved: A player has to earn his starting position. It is Jacobs #1 responsiblity to be in shape, stay healthy and EARN a starting job. I am not sure why you are blaming Gibbs? It was not Gibbs fault Jacobs missed almost all of 2004 preseason due to minor injuries. It was not Gibbs fault that Jacobs could not even crack the starting line up the year before under Spurrier. Spurrier ran the same system Jacobs played in college. Jacobs came in at a clear advantage in knowing the system better than any other WR on the roster. Still he could not earn a starting spot.

I am not seeing that he is ready to explode.
He plays well in non-contact practices. Big deal. So did Trung Canidate.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Jeezus. No way am I taking away from what Cooley did last year. I thought he played great and he quickly became one of my favorite players on the team. I'm just laying it out as I see it.

I just don't see how I was "knocking" him. Oh well, I guess some things just get taken COMPLETELY out of context.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

What more could have Cooley done last season for you to agree that he had a good season?!?! How many other 3rd round picks from last year had the season that he had? Hell how many 1st rounders had the season that he had? Cooley was deffinetly a surprise for us, to be chosen in the third round and have a season like he did!! Not many rookies can come in to the NFL and be "decidedly average" in there first 16 game season, esp. on a new and dismal offense!!! Cooley will get better, but cut the kid some slack he did do whatever was asked of him!!

I'm not positive but didn't Cooley have the best rookie season of all the TEs/H-Backs?

I don't think he even dropped a ball all season.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Jeezus. No way am I taking away from what Cooley did last year. I thought he played great and he quickly became one of my favorite players on the team. I'm just laying it out as I see it.

I just don't see how I was "knocking" him. Oh well, I guess some things just get taken COMPLETELY out of context.

Who said you were knocking him? I can't find any post that says that

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

What more could have Cooley done last season for you to agree that he had a good season?!?! How many other 3rd round picks from last year had the season that he had? Hell how many 1st rounders had the season that he had? Cooley was deffinetly a surprise for us, to be chosen in the third round and have a season like he did!! Not many rookies can come in to the NFL and be "decidedly average" in there first 16 game season, esp. on a new and dismal offense!!! Cooley will get better, but cut the kid some slack he did do whatever was asked of him!!

Cooley exceeded expectations, but let not go over board. There are plenty of rookie TE that come in have great - probowl rookie years.
Some drafted as low or lower than Cooley.
San Diego Charger - Antonio Gates was not even drafted. He was an undrafted rookie that was the starter on the AFC 2004 Pro Bowl team.
Jason Witten - Cowboys - was drafted in the thrid round (just like Cooley) and was on the 2004 NFC Pro Bowl team.

[MTK]

A quick comparison of rookie years:

Witten: 35-347-1
Gates: 24-389-2
Cooley: 37-314-6

Let's see if he can make the same jump in his 2nd year. Probably not simply because I don't see Cooley becoming a focus of the offense, but I can see him catching 50+ balls in 2005.

You never know though, looking at his numbers when Ramsey took over he had 27-227-4. He was clearly a go-to guy for Ramsey.

[Daseal]

I think Pro Bowl will be hard for him. They list him as a fullback on the roster, his forte isn't exactly his blocking. I doubt the guys that choose the pro bowl players will be inclined to take him over a big blocking FB.

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Cooley exceeded expectations, but let not go over board. There are plenty of rookie TE that come in have great - probowl rookie years.
Some drafted as low or lower than Cooley.
San Diego Charger - Antonio Gates was not even drafted. He was an undrafted rookie that was the starter on the AFC 2004 Pro Bowl team.
Jason Witten - Cowboys - was drafted in the thrid round (just like Cooley) and was on the 2004 NFC Pro Bowl team.

From the numbers that Matty posted Cooley had a Pro-Bowl rookie year compared to Gates and Wittens rookie year.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

1) I have heard maybe two or three people say it take a WR three years to develop, not many more. I do not agree that it takes three years. WR is one of the few postions (RB the other) where a talented rookie can come in and play right away. QB on the other hand is much more difficult.

2) Regarding Jacobs freak accident/injury during his rookie season, it caused him to only miss 1/4 of his rookie season. He was on the sideline and ready to play for most of the other games that year. IMO Jacob just did not show enough in practice to earn a starting position and displace another starting WR.

3) Correct me if I am wrong, are you saying Jacobs was/is Ramsey's favorite target? When last season did Jacobs become Ramsey's favorite target? I must have missed that memo. It seemed clear to me that L. Coles and Cooley were Ramsey's favorite targets last year.

4) Regarding who's job it is to get Jacobs more involved: A player has to earn his starting position. It is Jacobs #1 responsiblity to be in shape, stay healthy and EARN a starting job. I am not sure why you are blaming Gibbs? It was not Gibbs fault Jacobs missed almost all of 2004 preseason due to minor injuries. It was not Gibbs fault that Jacobs could not even crack the starting line up the year before under Spurrier. Spurrier ran the same system Jacobs played in college. Jacobs came in at a clear advantage in knowing the system better than any other WR on the roster. Still he could not earn a starting spot.

I am not seeing that he is ready to explode.
He plays well in non-contact practices. Big deal. So did Trung Canidate.

You only heard 1 or 2 state that it takes nominally 3 years for a WR to develope? Obviously you haven't been around here that long.


I will correct you, McCant's has been Ramseys favorite target, the reason it wasen't clear to you is because as I stated he was inactive all year, but the previous year it was clear that when McCants was given field time Ramsey continually hooked up with him, it is also why he led the team in TD's, that is why everyone here was so exited when we resigned him, it is also another reason why we did resign him. It is also the reason most here would like to see us draft a big WR because Ramsey seems to like the big target's ALA Cooley, but I guess I had to spell it out for you, McCants! Jacob's was not inactive most of the season.

As for Jacobs, I will spell it out for you again, he had a freak life threatening injury in the last pre-season game which caused him to mis the first half of the season, Jacobs was deactivated for 8 games and questionable when he tried to come back for some other and didn't see much if any field time because SS was a little reluctant to use him because he still wasen't quite 100% and given the nature of the injury he held him out of the games even though he dressed. How many WR's do you know that can mis basically the first half of the season and then just step in and produce while being deactivated the last 3 games of the season?

My question to you is, what has Gardner done to earn a starting position other than being drafted #1? That's right 50/50, you know the cute little nickname his own teamates gave him.

Next question, what did Brunell do to earn or keep his starting position?

And please don't tell me they fought their gut's out!

I do believe I have heard Gibbs praising Jacobs and saying he needs to take a better look at him, can't say the same for Gardner anymore. I never heard Bailey telling people that Gardner was 1 of the toughest recievers for him to cover, that honor belongs to Jacobs, it's tough to see how Jacobs could have fallen through the cracks last year with that big time air attack we threw at everyone, our recievers are jumping ship faster than life boats off the titanic and Gibbs isn't acountable?

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

What more could have Cooley done last season for you to agree that he had a good season?!?! How many other 3rd round picks from last year had the season that he had? Hell how many 1st rounders had the season that he had? Cooley was deffinetly a surprise for us, to be chosen in the third round and have a season like he did!! Not many rookies can come in to the NFL and be "decidedly average" in there first 16 game season, esp. on a new and dismal offense!!! Cooley will get better, but cut the kid some slack he did do whatever was asked of him!!

This one.

[MTK]

Wychek was a H-back but he made the Pro Bowl for TE, didn't he?

I think for some reason they just had Cooley listed wrong last year. If you look him up on NFL.com he's under the TE category now.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

This one.

If you go back and look at Redskin8588's post he's referencing what Sportscurmudgeon wrote about what you and Matty said. So, I think he's actually defending you

http://www.thewarpath.net/showpost.p...5&postcount=45

[TheMalcolmConnection]

If that is the case. That is my bad. Sometimes I get a little on the mentally handicapped side.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Sorry Redskin8588.

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Sorry Redskin8588.

It's ok, It happens from time to time, No big deal!!