Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I hear ya, but that was 5 years ago and he's now in a much more QB friendly offense. He threw 7 TD vs 4 INT last year in just 3 starts. A much better ratio.

If you veiw it in those terms that's true. But I find it difficult to extrapolate playing 4 times as many games based on the result of 3. Reversing the ratio would make it easier to define. If he had played 12 games you could average out last 3 or 4. I don't know if it really works the other way around.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I just saw this posted by Kelli Johnson on Twitter, given the current discussion I was curious to hear what people thought about it:

"Let me say this.. I like Kyle, I like McNabb..What I don't like is the redkins looking for another scapegoat after they make another bad decision. They knew what they were getting in McNabb(he has 12 years of tape) So if he's not a good fit, don't trade for him! I'm done."

Kelli Johnson for GM!

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I just saw this posted by Kelli Johnson on Twitter, given the current discussion I was curious to hear what people thought about it:

"Let me say this.. I like Kyle, I like McNabb..What I don't like is the redkins looking for another scapegoat after they make another bad decision. They knew what they were getting in McNabb(he has 12 years of tape) So if he's not a good fit, don't trade for him! I'm done."

The lovely Kelli Johnson hit the nail on the head.

[NLC1054]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I just saw this posted by Kelli Johnson on Twitter, given the current discussion I was curious to hear what people thought about it:

"Let me say this.. I like Kyle, I like McNabb..What I don't like is the redkins looking for another scapegoat after they make another bad decision. They knew what they were getting in McNabb(he has 12 years of tape) So if he's not a good fit, don't trade for him! I'm done."

I don't they're scapegoating McNabb. They were looking for one guy and got another. It goes beyond the play on the field. It was the work ethic and the lack of dedication to his craft beyond the scenes. If you look at the tape, I'm willing to bet Shanahan thought he could help him fix some of his probems.

When you're trying to rebuild a team and trying to change the culture, and you're having a very public spat with another player over their laziness, it doesn't help when your supposed quarterback also has those issues.

It's not the player. I think they could've worked with the player. It was the guy. That's where the real problem came in.

[MTK]

Hard to "scapegoat" a guy that simply didn't play all that well and wasn't a great fit in this offense. Lesson learned hopefully everyone can move on.

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

I don't they're scapegoating McNabb. They were looking for one guy and got another. It goes beyond the play on the field. It was the work ethic and the lack of dedication to his craft beyond the scenes. If you look at the tape, I'm willing to bet Shanahan thought he could help him fix some of his probems.

When you're trying to rebuild a team and trying to change the culture, and you're having a very public spat with another player over their laziness, it doesn't help when your supposed quarterback also has those issues.

It's not the player. I think they could've worked with the player. It was the guy. That's where the real problem came in.

They are publicly blame shifting. Turning the focus from a poor system/player/personality evaluation to McNabb not wanting to wear a wristband, or McNabb not practicing with great urgency. If Shany would accept his portion of the blame I would consider it reciprocal fault, but he hasn't for the sake of maintaining appearences. Sounds like scapegoating to me.

Either that or Shanahan simply can't admit to himself, because of his own egocetricities, that he made a mistake.

If they wouldn't have publicly leaked this information his image would have remainded relatively untarnished and so would McNabb's. I think the fact that it came to light actually does more harm them good to Mike's image and to DMs stock. The fact that he couldn't motivate a guy that is obviously respected league wide indicates that he isn't as great of a leader of men as we initially thought.

[NLC1054]

I have a hard time believing that Mike and the organization would leak anything to disparage McNabb.

What does Mike have to gain by tarnishing McNabb's image? McNabb already has a nye-untradeable contract, but with teams panicky about the lockout and getting a veteran quarterback, some team might be desperate enough to cough up a few mid-round draft picks for him. It certainly doesn't help McNabb's trade value to leak anything to the press.

Nor has Mike Shanahan ever come out publicly and bashed McNabb, and neither has Kyle for that matter. Everything we know about the situation has come from unnamed sources and what little the players have been willing to reveal about the situation. Mike Shanahan has commended McNabb's professionalism on numerous occasions.

And in a press conference (probably the season ending one), he did come out and say, as it pertained to McNabb's situation, that he wish he'd been more honest about the whole thing.

And the idea that Mike isn't a leader is kind of insulting to him. He did when two Super Bowls as a head coach, and I know he had John Elway, but let's not forget, Elway lost three Super Bowls before him. He had Terrell Davis, but TD was a sixth round draft pick. He's taken medicore quarterbacks and gotten to the playoffs. John Elway and Steve Young have both credited him with their success and their ability to win Super Bowls.

The guys here now clearly buy in, otherwise you wouldn't have such great player turnouts at this workouts. The players who didn't buy in will be gone. Accountability has returned to Redskins Park. He's managed to keep Dan Snyder out of Redskins Park in his offense.

I mean...think about this. Was anyone in Philly upset that he was leaving? I mean his teammates. Did anyone speak out against it? Did any players that mattered step and say "this is a bad move by Andy Reid and the organization". When Donovan came back to Philly in Week 5, the Eagles barely seemed phased by all the "revenge game" hype. No one seemed to be affected. They also stayed noticeably mum during both benching fiascos.

And out of that lockerroom, all the rumors that have come out about Donovan's lack of work habits, his lack of conditioning, his attitude...this is all stuff that played out in Philly. It just didn't explode the way it did here.

But Donovan, time and time and time again, gets the benefit of the doubt over his fellow players and his coaches.

I think what we're seeing now says more about Donovan than it does about Mike, or Kyle, or anyone in the front office. To paraphrase Katt Williams, no one says something about you for fifteen years if there's not some part of it that's true.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

I have a hard time believing that Mike and the organization would leak anything to disparage McNabb.

What does Mike have to gain by tarnishing McNabb's image? McNabb already has a nye-untradeable contract, but with teams panicky about the lockout and getting a veteran quarterback, some team might be desperate enough to cough up a few mid-round draft picks for him. It certainly doesn't help McNabb's trade value to leak anything to the press.......

It helps to protect his sons reputation. Kyle made a great name for himself in Houston. However it has become very clear that offense in Houston is great with or with out Kyle. Kyle's first year in Washington did not go as expected. Say what you want about McNabb, but there has been a lot of negative information that has leaked out of Redskins headquarters. But I guess you think that is a coincidence.
It is also no secret that Mike wants Kyle to be the next Head Coach in DC. Don't need a road map to figure out what happened.

[NLC1054]

Kyle had the same problems McNabb had to deal with; he didn't have the offensive line they had in Houston, nor the weapons, and on top of all that, he was saddled with a quarterback that Mike traded for, against his wishes.

So he doesn't have any of the things that helped him succeed to begin with. He has a quarterback that not only doesn't really fit his scheme, but also has issues with work ethic and wants the offense to run more like the one he wants in Philly. And then he adds the things he doesn't really want in his offense (the screens, that stupid friggin' shovel pass that I hate with a fiery, deadly passion), and the guy still has trouble with the offense.

Plus he doesn't talk to Kyle on the sidelines, doesn't practice hard during the week, doesn't put in all the film study he needs to...

It's kind of a two way street. I'm not saying Kyle wasn't part of the problem; I'm saying that Donovan McNabb was a part of the problem that no one wants to talk about.

And again; the same things we're hearing now are things that we heard about him in Philly. It's just amplified because this is the Redskins and it's apparently funny to watch the Redskins fail, or something.

The work ethic, the lack of conditioning, issues with wristbands and clock management problems, trouble spitting out the playcalls, the bad practice habits. None of this is really new news.

I don't think pretending Kyle's rep matters to Mike much, and if Kyle wasn't the right guy for the job, we'd have another offensive coordinator or Mike would take over as the coordinator by now.

And has Mike ever said he wants Kyle to be the next head coach in Washington?

At what point does McNabb also shoulder some of the blame is the only thing I want to know.

[SirClintonPortis]

He might be the most productive QB for us out of all those Florida QBs that Spurrier coached. haha

[fanarchist]

I didn't say Mike leaked the story. I used the word they, meaning whom ever the unnamed but reliable sourses close to the redskins organization were. But just because it doesn't come from the mouth of the man doesn't mean the man was not involved.

If you leak something positive I guarantee it wouldn't hurt McNabb's stock. But that rarely occurs in the NOVA DC Metro area sports media.

I didn't say Mike Shanahan was not a leader. If you're going to critique my posts please don't infuse your own interpretation of my words and then critique yourself masquerading as me. What I said was....ah, no use in repeating myself it's right there in plain text for you to reread. And I'm well aware of his accomplishments, but thanks for the unnecessary history lesson.

I also never said Donovan was blameless. I said I was looking for a little equilibrium in the disbursement of blame. And perhaps a little more balance from you as well.

If the attitude problems all played out in Philly, why weren't our coaches able to speak to former teammates or former coaches to assess McNabb's personality issues prior to trading for him? Being that MS has been in the league for as many years as he has I'm certain he's built a rapport with several people who could give him an accurate depiction of McNabb's personal work habits.

[SirClintonPortis]

For all we know, it could have been camp McNabb who leaked the info so that the Shanahans would be forced to cut him and thus he can choose where to go.

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

For all we know, it could have been camp McNabb who leaked the info so that the Shanahans would be forced to cut him and thus he can choose where to go.

He's under contract. We're not really being forced to do anything. Especially with everthing at a stand still. But you never know.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by fanarchist

They are publicly blame shifting. Turning the focus from a poor system/player/personality evaluation to McNabb not wanting to wear a wristband, or McNabb not practicing with great urgency. If Shany would accept his portion of the blame I would consider it reciprocal fault, but he hasn't for the sake of maintaining appearences. Sounds like scapegoating to me.

I find the 'leaks' to be the most troubling part of the McNabb vs Kyle fiasco.

Originally Posted by NLC1054

But Donovan, time and time and time again, gets the benefit of the doubt over his fellow players and his coaches.

Benefit of the doubt?
McNabb's career speaks for itself.
Men lie.
Women lie.
Numbers don't.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

It's kind of a two way street. I'm not saying Kyle wasn't part of the problem; I'm saying that Donovan McNabb was a part of the problem that no one wants to talk about.

You might be new here so maybe you didn't know.
But, I do believe you the order mixed up.
Most Redskin's fans readily talk about and blame McNabb.
And conversely most fans give Kyle a pass.

I don't think pretending Kyle's rep matters to Mike much, and if Kyle wasn't the right guy for the job, we'd have another offensive coordinator or Mike would take over as the coordinator by now.

Just out of curiosity do you have kids?
There is no way Mike would take over as playcaller, and if it did happen there is no way that would get leaked.
Mike isn't going end his own sons coaching career by stripping him of playcalling duties, ain't gonna happen.