Dwight Freeney to Skins?

[SkinEmAll]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I know Cooley is a fan favorite and it may be against the sacred honor of a Redskin fan to criticize him, but I need to see more consistency before I anoint him the way some people have. Perhaps that will come with more experience and stability at quarterback. But to say he's one of the most "underrated", I don't know, to me, he's a tad on the overrated side.

Right now, I'd put him near the top of the second tier of tight ends in the league, if they were divided into three. But guys like Antonio Gates, Alge Crumpler, Tony Gonzales, Jason Witten, Dallas Clark, Todd Heap are by far more complete tight ends, and hence, much more of a threat than he is.

When he gets into the top tier, then maybe we can say he was worth that extra 2nd round pick. But as of now, he's a good player who needs a lot of work. In my mind, he's one of the exhibits of how teams shouldn't use multiple draft picks to nab players that they really like.

Oh really?! so just what exactly does he need to do to become 'top tier' in your mind? Yes he is a fan favorite as well as one of my favs, but all that aside your assesment of Cooley has me a little baffeled. And how can you say he is overrated? You never really hear him mentioned anywhere, besides here. And consistency? I know hes not 'perfect', but I think he needs to be used more consistentantly. Hes open on sooooo many plays its not even funny. The kid has a knack for getting open. And speaking of 'overrated', what does clark, witten or heap for that matter have and do that differently than Cooley? Just curious. And no I dont think you broke the sacred honor, but I do think your in the minority.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

One of the reasons we have no depth is becasue of all the 2-1 deals that our FO does.

Portis 2-1
Rocky 2-1
JC 2-1
LLoyd 2-1

Funnily enough, of the 2-1s you mentioned plus Cooley, Cooley was probably the only one worth it (JC is TBD). Giving up Champ Bailey and a #2 that turned into Tatum Bell wasn't worth it for Portis. Especially with Betts already on the roster and the recent woes of our pass defense... God Brandon Lloyd was worthless, huh?

[SkinEmAll]

is funnily really a word?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SkinEmAll

Oh really?! so just what exactly does he need to do to become 'top tier' in your mind? Yes he is a fan favorite as well as one of my favs, but all that aside your assesment of Cooley has me a little baffeled. And how can you say he is overrated? You never really hear him mentioned anywhere, besides here. And consistency? I know hes not 'perfect', but I think he needs to be used more consistentantly. Hes open on sooooo many plays its not even funny. The kid has a knack for getting open. And speaking of 'overrated', what does clark, witten or heap for that matter have and do that differently than Cooley? Just curious. And no I dont think you broke the sacred honor, but I do think your in the minority.

Oh boy. I knew I'd get into trouble with this one.

Cooley is a good player. I tend to think we as Skins fans heap just a bit more praise on him than he's probably worth, that's all. If you disagree, fine.

It's something I really can't pinpoint with numbers, as GMScud has taken the time to do -- I just don't think he has "it" yet. That's not to say he'll never get there. There were times last season when he appeared out of sync, didn't really have much of a presence on the field -- like he was lost here and there.

I don't think he's at the point where we can unequivocally say yes, he was worth two picks, and he's the greatest thing since spray-on butter.

[Redskin]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I know Cooley is a fan favorite and it may be against the sacred honor of a Redskin fan to criticize him, but I need to see more consistency before I anoint him the way some people have. Perhaps that will come with more experience and stability at quarterback. But to say he's one of the most "underrated", I don't know, to me, he's a tad on the overrated side.

Right now, I'd put him near the top of the second tier of tight ends in the league, if they were divided into three. But guys like Antonio Gates, Alge Crumpler, Tony Gonzales, Jason Witten, Dallas Clark, Todd Heap are by far more complete tight ends, and hence, much more of a threat than he is.

When he gets into the top tier, then maybe we can say he was worth that extra 2nd round pick. But as of now, he's a good player who needs a lot of work. In my mind, he's one of the exhibits of how teams shouldn't use multiple draft picks to nab players that they really like.

Heres what I dont like, Cooley was tied with clark and heap in TD's, pretty good for the wish-washy QB situation we had. Oh and Gonzales had 1 less then him. Cooley's other stats are right up there with the top too. He goes out there and plays with his all every game and to say he is not top tier well, shame on you.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I know Cooley is a fan favorite and it may be against the sacred honor of a Redskin fan to criticize him, but I need to see more consistency before I anoint him the way some people have. Perhaps that will come with more experience and stability at quarterback. But to say he's one of the most "underrated", I don't know, to me, he's a tad on the overrated side.

Right now, I'd put him near the top of the second tier of tight ends in the league, if they were divided into three. But guys like Antonio Gates, Alge Crumpler, Tony Gonzales, Jason Witten, Dallas Clark, Todd Heap are by far more complete tight ends, and hence, much more of a threat than he is.

When he gets into the top tier, then maybe we can say he was worth that extra 2nd round pick. But as of now, he's a good player who needs a lot of work. In my mind, he's one of the exhibits of how teams shouldn't use multiple draft picks to nab players that they really like.

I think you are giving a lot of those guys too much credit. Heap and Crumpler are great all around players and Gonzo is a pretty good blocker to go with his receiving skills. However Antonio Gates, Dallas Clark, and Jason Witten are receivers in a TE's body. Witten is the best blocker of the three, but I'd take Cooley any day over him.

Cooley came into the league with blocking projected to be his weakness, but he has quickly become one of the better blocking TE's in the league. Cooley brings something to the table that no other TE in the league does in his ability to break tackles going north and south after the catch. Cooley has led TE in YAC per catch for two straight seasons now. This is a very important stat, and lets you know that we don't just have any old TE.

I might take him over any other TE in the league. Dead serious, no blinders on. He may be the best all around TE in the game today.

[GTripp0012]

He had drops this year, absolutely. But he caught a higher percentage of the passes thrown his direction this season than Gates, Clark, and Crumpler did.

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think you are giving a lot of those guys too much credit. Heap and Crumpler are great all around players and Gonzo is a pretty good blocker to go with his receiving skills. However Antonio Gates, Dallas Clark, and Jason Witten are receivers in a TE's body. Witten is the best blocker of the three, but I'd take Cooley any day over him.

Cooley came into the league with blocking projected to be his weakness, but he has quickly become one of the better blocking TE's in the league. Cooley brings something to the table that no other TE in the league does in his ability to break tackles going north and south after the catch. Cooley has led TE in YAC per catch for two straight seasons now. This is a very important stat, and lets you know that we don't just have any old TE.

I might take him over any other TE in the league. Dead serious, no blinders on. He may be the best all around TE in the game today.

Also, people tend to forget that Crumpler, Gates, and Heap are really the only receiving threats on their teams. Crumpler led the Falcons in receiving with 8TD's and 780 yards. Heap was the second leading receiver on the Ravens behind second year WR Marc Clayton. Gates led the Chargers in receiving with 9TD's and 924 yards. Tony G. led KC in receiving.

All I am saying is that yeah Gates, Crumpler, Heap, Tony G. are good TE's but would they lead their team in receiving if the teams that they are on had good quality WR's? Because if you think about it the best receiving option that the Ravens, Cheifs, Falcons, and Chargers have is their TE.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

Also, people tend to forget that Crumpler, Gates, and Heap are really the only receiving threats on their teams. Crumpler led the Falcons in receiving with 8TD's and 780 yards. Heap was the second leading receiver on the Ravens behind second year WR Marc Clayton. Gates led the Chargers in receiving with 9TD's and 924 yards. Tony G. led KC in receiving.

All I am saying is that yeah Gates, Crumpler, Heap, Tony G. are good TE's but would they lead their team in receiving if the teams that they are on had good quality WR's? Because if you think about it the best receiving option that the Ravens, Cheifs, Falcons, and Chargers have is their TE.

Which is a good explaintion for why stats for WRs and TEs can be misleading, unlike QB and RB where the stats are very telling. All statistics for TEs and WRs assume that when the ball doesn't come their way, they are a non factor in the play. But while this is true for some players, it couldn't be more false for others. There is a big discrepancy between the best TE on plays where he doesn't get the ball, and the worst TE on plays where he doesn't get the ball. Cooley is a pretty solid blocker and has more value after the catch--which seperates the good players from the great players--than any other TE.

Simply looking at the receiving yards and catches is not a great way to evaluate WRs and TEs.