Scott Turner Fired

[mooby]

Originally Posted by jamf

Let’s be honest Mooby, Samuels and Thomas aren’t elite pass catchers. Their best years are behind them and even the. They weren’t standouts.
Also, if you don’t have a QB you better be able to run the ball.

Agreed, they're not elite but they don't need to be. Thomas was a solid pass catching option before this season. Samuel doesn't need to be elite when Dotson and McLaurin are better receivers than him. But Samuel can make plays in space - we need an OC who can design plays for him too just so teams will respect him. Turner literally had a couple plays for him which was running him off the fullback spot.

This just tells me Ron is not looking at this offseason for a qb who can make plays - he wants a qb that can manage the game effectively and make a play here and there when needed. It's not a recipe for success in the modern NFL. And I get his options are limited. But he's setting himself up for failure when the new owner gets his feet wet next offseason.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

Come on down Panthers QB coach!!!

This...

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by mooby

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...e-scott-turner

The eye-popping paragraph to me:



So let me get this straight. On a team with McLaurin, Samuel, Dotson, Logan Thomas, and ex-WR Antonio Gibson at RB, Ron and Mayhew want us to be a physical power running team?

I like Brian Robinson, but he's not Derrick Henry. And this gameplan of "we're gonna wear teams down with our physicality and start breaking big gainers in the 4th quarter" only works if the defense holds the other team in check. You can't be a physical running team if you're down by 10+ in the second half.

Ron and Mayhew are trying to take us back to the 80's on this one. If his gameplan is to keep the qb under 20 passes and Robinson over 20 carries every game it remains to be seen whether that can be a winning style.

Spot on Moby. These guys don't know what the hell they want to be. We're just directionless. Here you have Ron and MM wanting a power running game but you have nothing but pass catchers for the most part on offense. You spent almost 30 million on Wentz to throw the ball. You have to be able to throw the ball in the current NFL to win. Period.

Sigh.. I just want all of this regime gone. It needs to be blown up and get a GM who knows how to build a team. The GM and the coach have to have the same DNA. Ron is not the guy. Great culture changer and all but that's it.

[SFREDSKIN]

Call Frank Reich and if McVay retires Thomas Brown Rams OC.

[skinsfan69]

If you want to be a SB caliber team in the league today you simply have to have an elite type of air game. Sure there are teams that can run it and make the playoffs but they're ceiling is just that. This is why I don't want these defense first coaches. They are just not w/ the times when it comes to the NFL.

If you put Mahomes in this offense what are you going to do? Run the ball 40 times? If he was on this team Terry, Dotson and Samuel would all be near or over 1,000 yards and we'd be making deep playoff runs.

[KI Skins Fan]

Turner was a poor OC but both Rivera and Mayhew are worse at their jobs. Neither one of them has a clue about how to build an NFL team in the 21st century. They need to to be fired more than Turner did.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

If you want to be a SB caliber team in the league today you simply have to have an elite type of air game. Sure there are teams that can run it and make the playoffs but they're ceiling is just that. This is why I don't want these defense first coaches. They are just not w/ the times when it comes to the NFL.

If you put Mahomes in this offense what are you going to do? Run the ball 40 times? If he was on this team Terry, Dotson and Samuel would all be near or over 1,000 yards and we'd be making deep playoff runs.

You most certainly can't have what we did in 22 to regularly complete.

In the old days, you ran to set-up the pass. Now, ideally you need to have a good passing game to set-up the running game. The rules dictate this. It's way harder to march down the field running the ball than just hitting some chunk pass plays.

[mooby]

https://twitter.com/john_keim/status...02860475486208

Originally Posted by Keim

Ron Rivera said he believes in being a run-first team, pointing to teams that are: "they control the tempo of the game and I think that's what we need to do to win football games. We need to control that tempo of the game. I do believe in a two-back system."

Oof. How many SB's were won in the last 20 years off the strength of the "control the clock with 2 running backs" system? Ron might be digging his grave on this one. I get we don't have a qb he trusts right now but it's basically signaling defeat on the qb market this offseason.

[Chief X_Phackter]

I honestly don't get all the fuss.

"...There appeared to be a divide between Rivera's vision for what he wanted offensively -- led by a power run game -- and Turner's vertical passing attack. Rivera and general manager Martin Mayhew both emphasized the desire to be more of a physical running team."

GOOD!

You can have a physical running game and a vertical passing game. You can have a vertical passing game "LED" by a power run game. It's not like you have to choose one of the two. I mean do you want to be a "non"-physical running team, or do you want to be a physical running team? Pretty easy answer if you ask me. Maybe all they are talking about is the same thing all of us have been talking about, which is they want to remake the offensive line so they can be more "physical". I'm ok with that. It doesn't mean they are going to stop throwing the ball to McLaurin, Dotson, etc. I think they realize the value in them, which is why McLaurin was extended and they picked Dotson in the 1st round.

It's easy to make something out of nothing with everything us fans have been through over the last two plus decades, but sometimes it's just not as bad as it may seem.

[mooby]

https://twitter.com/PeteHaileyNBCS/s...24351468425216

Originally Posted by Pete Hailey

Where does Ron go now at OC — hire an old buddy or really try to inject new ideas and a new perspective? His track record here suggests the former. His future may largely depend on doing the latter

Hailey nails it here. We're looking at a Mayhew type yes-man to be Ron's pound the rock offensive coordinator.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

I honestly don't get all the fuss.

"...There appeared to be a divide between Rivera's vision for what he wanted offensively -- led by a power run game -- and Turner's vertical passing attack. Rivera and general manager Martin Mayhew both emphasized the desire to be more of a physical running team."

GOOD!

You can have a physical running game and a vertical passing game. You can have a vertical passing game "LED" by a power run game. It's not like you have to choose one of the two. I mean do you want to be a "non"-physical running team, or do you want to be a physical running team? Pretty easy answer if you ask me. Maybe all they are talking about is the same thing all of us have been talking about, which is they want to remake the offensive line so they can be more "physical". I'm ok with that. It doesn't mean they are going to stop throwing the ball to McLaurin, Dotson, etc. I think they realize the value in them, which is why McLaurin was extended and they picked Dotson in the 1st round.

It's easy to make something out of nothing with everything us fans have been through over the last two plus decades, but sometimes it's just not as bad as it may seem.

Vertical passing attack..... or controlling the clock to keep the opposing offense off the field. Pick one.

[SFREDSKIN]

Rivera should call Gibbs and have him school his ass on how an Air Coryell offense operates.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by mooby

Vertical passing attack..... or controlling the clock to keep the opposing offense off the field. Pick one.

No, I disagree. You don't have to pick one. Just because you want to control the pace of the game with a solid physical running game, does not also mean that you don't have the ability to stretch the field with a vertical passing game, and/or you won't take your shots when the opportunities are there.

[sdskinsfan2001]

List of teams by % of pass plays.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct

Pretty surprising. There are 10 teams below us. 5 made the playoffs.

3 of those teams were the Giants, Ravens, and Eagles. All 3 had QBs that rushed for over 700 yards. Lots of those were likely pass calls where they kept the ball and scrambled. So their numbers may be skewed a bit.

The other 2 were the 49ers and Cowboys. Those numbers were also likely skewed by QB injuries and having good running backs.

But still, I wouldn't have guessed 10 teams passed less by % and 5 of those teams made the playoffs.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Rivera should call Gibbs and have him school his ass on how an Air Coryell offense operates.

The Coryell offense is a combination of deep and mid range passing and power running.