Who Can Lead This Team?

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Rex is what we thought he was.

He's going to throw dumb picks at times, he's going to fumble, he's not a superstar. That said I wouldn't bail on him anytime soon. He's shown he can be a productive player in this offense. Not sure I agree with all the heat he's taking today. There's more than enough blame to go around for last night.

Just because you wouldn't "bail on him", doesn't mean we shouldn't. If this is an 8-8 season, which it seems like many people agree on, why not play Beck. We already know what we have in Grossman...a glorified backup.

And I agree there are plenty of other places to point the finger. But 2 redzone picks last week, another fumble, the "heat" is well placed.

[MTK]

Is Beck really the long term answer though?

I'm all for giving him a shot if Rex strings together a few really bad outings or we're simply out of contention, just saying it's premature to be thinking about a change already.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by fanarchist

Just because you wouldn't "bail on him", doesn't mean we shouldn't. If this is an 8-8 season, which it seems like many people agree on, why not play Beck. We already know what we have in Grossman...a glorified backup.

And I agree there are plenty of other places to point the finger. But 2 redzone picks last week, another fumble, the "heat" is well placed.

Because it's not all about the QB's development. The rest of the offense needs to develop its ability to make big plays. Putting Beck in might help his development but stunt the growth of other parts of our offense as a result.

Ultimately neither Rex nor Beck is the answer, and everyone (except those two) know it. That said, I think Rex's complete lack of conscience and memory probably helps develop the passing game more than we realize each week.

For example, right now, J.Campbell is allegedly a far superior QB according to those awful ESPN QBR stats. But they've won running McFadden into the ground and JC17 throwing short and sparingly. We've been there and done that, and I'm willing to bet when he DOES need to try and win a game with his arm, the team isn't going to be ready.

Think of Rex as simply a practice machine designed to give live game reps to our WRs, blockers and O-Line in the downfield vertical game, with some ball-hawk drills thrown in to spice it up, and you'll have a much calmer fan experience.

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Is Beck really the long term answer though?

I'm all for giving him a shot if Rex strings together a few really bad outings or we're simply out of contention, just saying it's premature to be thinking about a change already.

How many more bad outings do you need to see from this guy? It's obvious that he hasn't corrected the problems that have plagued him his entire career. If you, like these stubborn coaches, want to ride the Rex train until the wheels fall off, be my guest, but I refuse to jump on board with a guy who is the epitome of perpetual disappointment. I prefer to test the road less traveled.

[Chico23231]

if Grossman has a poor game at St Louis....bye week Shannys will make the switch

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by dgack

Because it's not all about the QB's development. The rest of the offense needs to develop its ability to make big plays. Putting Beck in might help his development but stunt the growth of other parts of our offense as a result.

Ultimately neither Rex nor Beck is the answer, and everyone (except those two) know it. That said, I think Rex's complete lack of conscience and memory probably helps develop the passing game more than we realize each week.

For example, right now, J.Campbell is allegedly a far superior QB according to those awful ESPN QBR stats. But they've won running McFadden into the ground and JC17 throwing short and sparingly. We've been there and done that, and I'm willing to bet when he DOES need to try and win a game with his arm, the team isn't going to be ready.

Think of Rex as simply a practice machine designed to give live game reps to our WRs, blockers and O-Line in the downfield vertical game, with some ball-hawk drills thrown in to spice it up, and you'll have a much calmer fan experience.

Thanks for your concern for my sense of calm. I actually made a similar statement to a friend last night. In the vein of Rex being an automaton on the field, and my follow up to that statement was, "but humaniods rarely make mistakes". If that were the case, and he were less erratic with the ball, ala Jason Campbell, we would probably be staring at a 3 in the win column.

The fact that you infatically claim to know how Beck will play without the evidentiary material to back it up is pretty shortsighted.

I don't want a machine out there. I wanted someone with enough cognitive ability to be able to adapt and adjust to the situation on the fly. Do I know, unequivocally, that Beck can do that. No. But the point is I know Rex can't.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by fanarchist

How many more bad outings do you need to see from this guy? It's obvious that he hasn't corrected the problems that have plagued him his entire career. If you, like these stubborn coaches, want to ride the Rex train until the wheels fall off, be my guest, but I refuse to jump on board with a guy who is the epitome of perpetual disappointment. I prefer to test the road less traveled.

More than 1.

[bertoskins2]

Tim Tebow

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

More than 1.

I guess "bad" is subjective.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by fanarchist

I guess "bad" is subjective.

Guess so.

Amazing we started 2-0 with such bad performances.

[dgack]

Thanks for your concern for my sense of calm.

Hey, it's your season, you can be angry or zen, or anywhere in between. The only thing you can't do is change the decisions of the coaching staff. /shrug

If that were the case, and he were less erratic with the ball, ala Jason Campbell, we would probably be staring at a 3 in the win column.

Don't get me wrong; I was a HUGE JC17 supporter here (check my post history). I am pulling for him in Chokeland. But the knock on him was "he's a mediocre game manager and will never be able get you a win if you need to put the ball in his hands" and that's largely continued to be true in OAK. They aren't winning because of him, he's just there not to eff it up.

Rex is definitely who we thought he was, which is to say, Favre-lite, minus the dong pics. But the coaches obviously felt that they needed that big-play gunslinger mentality more than a dink-and-dunk game manager, which is what Campbell has become.

The fact that you infatically claim to know how Beck will play without the evidentiary material to back it up is pretty shortsighted.

I don't claim to know. I leave that up to Mike and Kyle Shanahan.

Do I know, unequivocally, that Beck can do that. No. But the point is I know Rex can't.

I'm not saying Beck can't either (though again, I think he's had ample time to prove that he is markedly better than Rex and failed, which is fairly damning in and of itself). I'm just saying I don't really think a QB controversy and rebooting the offense right now in the name of chasing wins, under the very Snyder-esque pretense that we're close to being a contender, is a very productive thing to do.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Guess so.

Amazing we started 2-0 with such bad performances.

We could have very easily been 1-1 though. I guess I'm wanting to know what people are really expecting from Rex? I'm expecting him to play as an average QB who can make some better decisions than what Jason Campbell did, but I'm not expecting him to turn into Steve Young. And, if the former is what we're getting, then that's OK for now - I'll continue to back Grossman, but I'm not so sure he's the long term answers as well as I'm not sure Beck is. I still think that is a vital piece that we need to get before this team can make a realistic Super Bowl run. I hope I'm wrong on that and I hope Rex Grossman makes me look foolish for saying that.

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by dgack

Hey, it's your season, you can be angry or zen, or anywhere in between. The only thing you can't do is change the decisions of the coaching staff. /shrug

I do recogize the things which are in my power to control. I'm not deluded and the governing of existential emotion doesn't elude me. But this is a forum where I am afforded the opportunity to speak candidly on my personal position.

Originally Posted by dgack

Rex is definitely who we thought he was, which is to say, Favre-lite, minus the dong pics. But the coaches obviously felt that they needed that big-play gunslinger mentality more than a dink-and-dunk game manager, which is what Campbell has become.

I don't think I could disagree more vehemently with this statement as long as we're not purely speaking stats. The stats, in the int department, are somewhat similiar. But the similarities between Farve and Grossman stop there. I abhor this mentality of applying the "gun slinger" euphemism to any player who is careless with the rock. Rex doesn't throw darts he throws balloons, and he'll dress like a clown and perform a spasmodic magic routine at your childs birthday party for $7 an hour. And where are these mythological big-plays you speak of. All I've seen are underthrown long balls and floating out routes in that catagory. There have been a number of missed opportunities in that realm though.

Originally Posted by dgack

I don't claim to know. I leave that up to Mike and Kyle Shanahan.

I simply don't trust them enough to make the right player personel decisions based on what I've seen so far. Kyle seems like an arrogant coat tail climber who wants things his way, and he'll throw a temper tantrum to Daddy if he doesn't get them. It was clear from the genesis of his tenure here that he wanted Rex to be his QB. Because Rex is pandering, calling his offense brilliant, and him a genius, it fed his ego, and it also helped that Rex was malleable and did exactly what he was told without criticism.

Originally Posted by dgack

I'm not saying Beck can't either (though again, I think he's had ample time to prove that he is markedly better than Rex and failed, which is fairly damning in and of itself). I'm just saying I don't really think a QB controversy and rebooting the offense right now in the name of chasing wins, under the very Snyder-esque pretense that we're close to being a contender, is a very productive thing to do.

I don't know what you consider ample time. Is it being picked up from the Ravens just before the first preseason game in 2010. Or is it vying for a job as a starter in a lockout addled offseason. Or maybe missing the first preseason game this year due to injury.

I don't believe that there is a reboot to Kyle's offense. It is what it is. And there is no controversy if you make a definitive decision to change QBs without fluctuation. I don't believe we're close to being a contender which is the fundamental reason I would make a change to the guy who doesn't have real game film, or experience vs playing the guy who will forever remain a carbon copy of his former self.

[SmootSmack]

Grossman has made several big plays, not just this year but also at the end of last year. The fumble at the end of the game was terrible. But let's not pretend like he hasn't made any plays for us

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Grossman has made several big plays, not just this year but also at the end of last year. The fumble at the end of the game was terrible. But let's not pretend like he hasn't made any plays for us

You're right. He's made enough plays to garner himself a .500 record with this team. He's average, and gives away as many games as he wins. He is a good backup. I just want to see if there is untapped talent lingering in the wings.

I love this team, as does everyone here, but I can't stand idly by, being a blindly faithful zealot if I don't believe in the content.