Debunking top 3 myths about the '09 Redskins

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Your skepticism of our offense is justified IMO bro but don't ignore the positives we have going and the challenges facing our rivals. JC needs better protection and another big playmaker for a target. I'm still nervous about our line but as others have said it's great to hear they're working out together. I tend to think the group knows it was an embarrassment last year, that it failed JC and Buges and the fans. I think Chris and Dock and Randy are probably dead-set on reestablishing the line as an offensive strength and instilling this in the younger guys. As to the new playmaker Devin should be leaps and bounds ahead of where he was last year. We don't hear about this guy missing/skipping work and living stupid. We hear he's taking it very serious, working his ass off and hoping to be a superstar.

I agree the Eagles will be very good because they're always competitive and Dono does have more weapons at his disposal than the previous few years. However I just don't see how anyone can be intimidated by Dallas and NY. Our defense has improved more than either offense...I think it's simple as that. Dallas has big question marks at WR, as does NY. But the bonus is NY also has questions at RB. While Ward was the elder of the group he was also the most consistent. Now it's mostly on Jacobs...a guy almost guaranteed to miss time every year and get nicked up. Do we really think the sub 200 lb Bradshaw can carry maintain the running game? Psshht...please. NY will not be able to pound the ball consistently this year. Count on it. And defensively we hear Boley won't be available for training camp (suspended for first game)...I don't think the Giants off-season or their '09 prospects are anything impressive.

HTTR!!!

The Skins don't need to be all-world on offense to be one of the elite teams in the NFL this year. They just need to be 5-8 points better per game. It boils down to 2 things - can Zorn coach and can Campbell play. If the answer to both is yes, then look-out!

We have a pro-bowl receiver, pro-bowl tight-end, pro-bowl running back, pro-bowl full-back and pro-bowl RT. Would it be nice to have a Larry Fitzgerald-like WR as well? Of course, but most teams get by with a lot less. We have plenty of talent to be a 20 point per game team, which would make the Skins a force to be reckoned with, assuming the defense is elite and we can keep injuries to a minimum. It's all on Zorn and Campbell.

The Giants had so many good RBs a couple of years ago that they waived a guy named Ryan Grant (their 5th best RB). They'll plug someone in and have just as potent a 3-headed monster that they had last year. Maybe they aren't as good without Plax, but they'll still score enough to be a contender. Plax left the Steelers and they won the Super Bowl the next year, so let's not pretend he's the Messiah.

TO wanted every pass thrown to him, which gave the rest of the offense fits. Despite his late season meltdowns, Romo is legit, Whitten is still there and Roy Williams is plenty capable. He put up some monster numbers in Detroit, before falling off the radar. I think every team will be in the hunt again this year, but if Zorn and Campbell are the real deal, the Skins could run away with the NFC East. The defense could be one of the best units the Skins have ever had.

[rbanerjee23]

how does NY not intimidate you, their second string defensive line is better than most starting defensive lines. They were already the best with the d line they had last year and then they got umenyiora back and added chris canty. Plus, their offensive line is arguably the best in the league. Just on the strength of the lines, NY could be the team to beat in the East

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

The Skins don't need to be all-world on offense to be one of the elite teams in the NFL this year. They just need to be 5-8 points better per game. It boils down to 2 things - can Zorn coach and can Campbell play. If the answer to both is yes, then look-out!

We have a pro-bowl receiver, pro-bowl tight-end, pro-bowl running back, pro-bowl full-back and pro-bowl RT. Would it be nice to have a Larry Fitzgerald-like WR as well? Of course, but most teams get by with a lot less. We have plenty of talent to be a 20 point per game team, which would make the Skins a force to be reckoned with, assuming the defense is elite and we can keep injuries to a minimum. It's all on Zorn and Campbell.

The Giants had so many good RBs a couple of years ago that they waived a guy named Ryan Grant (their 5th best RB). They'll plug someone in and have just as potent a 3-headed monster that they had last year. Maybe they aren't as good without Plax, but they'll still score enough to be a contender. Plax left the Steelers and they won the Super Bowl the next year, so let's not pretend he's the Messiah.

TO wanted every pass thrown to him, which gave the rest of the offense fits. Despite his late season meltdowns, Romo is legit, Whitten is still there and Roy Williams is plenty capable. He put up some monster numbers in Detroit, before falling off the radar. I think every team will be in the hunt again this year, but if Zorn and Campbell are the real deal, the Skins could run away with the NFC East. The defense could be one of the best units the Skins have ever had.

I like Heyer but you're really putting a lot of faith in him aren't you? I agree about JC and Zorn. I think they'll show they're the real deal this year. If not, we're screwed. But I think they prove they're legit this year. I'm not gonna put a lot of heat on Zorn after his first year as coach. Especially with the limited coaching experience he's had in the NFL. He made some mistakes and I think he's smart enough to know it and make corrections. I think JC and Zorn did pretty well until the line started breaking down. Even Portis has pointed out how the line affected the whole offense in the second half of the season. For a coach with as limited experience as Zorn has, he coached some pretty good wins against some good teams in the first half of the season. If we're gonna give him some blame for the losses, we should give him some credit for the wins. I've had doubts about JC myself, but Cooley stated how JC was under TREMENDOUS pressure the second half of the season and believes Jason is going to have a great year. I'll take his word for it along with my belief that Jason will be a lot more comfortable and more aggressive this year.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by rbanerjee23

how does NY not intimidate you, their second string defensive line is better than most starting defensive lines. They were already the best with the d line they had last year and then they got umenyiora back and added chris canty. Plus, their offensive line is arguably the best in the league. Just on the strength of the lines, NY could be the team to beat in the East

Not that NY is not good, but they have several attackable weaknesses, and did very little to strengthen those areas. Yes they got Boley and Canty, but their DLine was not questioned. Their safeties and WR's are their weak links. Also, as I said earlier, their OLine has been together for 3yrs without injury, if they do that again then a) it would be a statistical fluke, and b) they would scare me a little more. Without Plax their play and offense declined significantly, and now they also lost an outstanding DC.

This will very likely be a down year for them (probably 7-9 or 8-8, they will still beat up on the AFC West)

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

I like Heyer but you're really putting a lot of faith in him aren't you? I agree about JC and Zorn. I think they'll show they're the real deal this year. If not, we're screwed. But I think they prove they're legit this year.

Yeah, got my sides mixed up. Unless I'm just subliminally psychic

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Not that NY is not good, but they have several attackable weaknesses, and did very little to strengthen those areas. Yes they got Boley and Canty, but their DLine was not questioned. Their safeties and WR's are their weak links. Also, as I said earlier, their OLine has been together for 3yrs without injury, if they do that again then a) it would be a statistical fluke, and b) they would scare me a little more. Without Plax their play and offense declined significantly, and now they also lost an outstanding DC.

This will very likely be a down year for them (probably 7-9 or 8-8, they will still beat up on the AFC West)

Who needs safeties if your D-line is in the QBs face all day and who needs great WRs if you have all day to throw? Used to be what made the Skins so good for so long. Great line play on both sides of the ball.

But I hear ya. You could be right.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Yeah, got my sides mixed up. Unless I'm just subliminally psychic

I hope so!

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Not that NY is not good, but they have several attackable weaknesses, and did very little to strengthen those areas. Yes they got Boley and Canty, but their DLine was not questioned. Their safeties and WR's are their weak links. Also, as I said earlier, their OLine has been together for 3yrs without injury, if they do that again then a) it would be a statistical fluke, and b) they would scare me a little more. Without Plax their play and offense declined significantly, and now they also lost an outstanding DC.

This will very likely be a down year for them (probably 7-9 or 8-8, they will still beat up on the AFC West)

Not to mentions we brought in AH cause we had no pass rush. He alone will command teams to double team him in effect clogging up the line of scrimage and taking blocker out of the play, someone will be free to rush the QB. They will be in the same boat we were during the Gibbs era into the playoffs. A great O-line but no passing attack. people will stack the box.

Also for those who want to point out our passing stats.....we were mostly a running team. Perhaps due to our difficulty at scoring in the redzone or what ever Zorn tried TD's with our RB's. Maybe I'm mistaken and you guys did look at over all offensive scoring. Hopefully this yr will be different and we have a lot more offensive weapons in the passing catagory. ie; Kelly, Thomas, Davis, Cooley, Moss, ARE, Mitchell.....etc.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Also for those who want to point out our passing stats.....we were mostly a running team. Perhaps due to our difficulty at scoring in the redzone or what ever Zorn tried TD's with our RB's. Maybe I'm mistaken and you guys did look at over all offensive scoring. Hopefully this yr will be different and we have a lot more offensive weapons in the passing catagory. ie; Kelly, Thomas, Davis, Cooley, Moss, ARE, Mitchell.....etc.

Yeah, I've been hoping "this yr will be different" with Cooley, Moss, and ARE for about three seasons now.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

If I was a Giants fan, I'd be pretty concerned about the passing game. Not only did they lose Plaxico but they also lost Burress (48 rec, 580 yds, 4 TD) and Derrick Ward (41 rec, 384 yds), not to mention Ward's running yards (1,025). Moss has shown nothing but being injury prone for his 3 years and Manningham did zero last year.

I think for Dallas to be successful on offense this year, they need to run the ball 65% of the time or more. Romo is a good QB but Williams is no T.O. and the rest of their group is pretty weak.

Whaaaa? Plaxico Burress is really two people? So maybe he really did shoot himself... ;-)

[SBXVII]

LOL ^.....I think he meant Buress and Toomer. LOL

[53Fan]

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Fantastic thread...which unfortunately will fall on many deaf ears (or blind eyes in the case of a message board)

Point #1 is no biggie since we are looking to contest the division cellar with Dallas again.

Point #2 is just mind boggling with those WR stats, one must ask why we sucked so bad recordwise with that type of WR output.

Point #3 Haynesworth hasn't played a down yet so this acquisition evaluation can only be done by midseason at the earliest. As for the critics' saying the Danny has reverted to his old ways, you really can't blame them or say that they are flat out wrong either.Giving any one athlete, no matter good, a $100 million + deal is just asking for trouble in my book anyway. A Rod isn't worth half what Steinbrenner is paying him, neither was MJ in his early years with the Bulls for that matter as one guy no matter how special can get you a ring on his own.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

1. The Redskins have the oldest, most injury prone OL in the division.
Actually the Cowboys have the oldest offensive line with no starter under 30 years old and an average age of 30.8. The Eagles have a younger offensive line but have 2 starters coming off of season ending injuries (Andrews-back and Andrews-torn ACL) and another addition that gave up 11.5 sacks (Peters). Samuels is the only Redskins OL that didn't finish the season last year and their average age is 29.8 years with 2 starters under 30.

2. The Redskins have the least productive returning receiving corp in the division.
If you read anything in any preseason magazine or on any website or listened to any sports radio you'd think we had Santana Moss and a bunch of camp bodies catching the ball. In reality, we have the most productive receiving group in the division. Here are the top 6 returning pass catchers (WR, TE, RB) for every team in the NFC East:
Eagles
214 receptions, 2839 yards, 15 TD

Giants
159 receptions, 1795 yards, 12 TD

Cowboys
232 receptions, 2585 yards, 15 TD

Redskins
280 receptions, 3024 yards, 11 TD

While we're behind on the TD passes, it's pretty clear that we have the most productive receiving group. By the way, the Redskins numbers don't include Kelly or Davis, both of whom are expected to contribute much more to the passing game.

3. The Haynesworth signing represents the 'same old Redskins' way of building a team and overall organizational instability. Of approximately 23 player additions to the roster over the past 3 years, 18 were either drafted or originally acquired by the Redskins (this includes Smoot and Dockery who returned in FA). The team is also the only one in the division who is returning it's entire coaching staff from last season and the only one who hasn't replaced their defensive coordinator from the start of last season.

I just wanted to throw some positive vibes and reality out there on the brink of training camp.

Amazing stuff.

Where are offiss and irish?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Point #1 is no biggie since we are looking to contest the division cellar with Dallas again.

Point #2 is just mind boggling with those WR stats, one must ask why we sucked so bad recordwise with that type of WR output.

Point #3 Haynesworth hasn't played a down yet so this acquisition evaluation can only be done by midseason at the earliest. As for the critics' saying the Danny has reverted to his old ways, you really can't blame them or say that they are flat out wrong either.Giving any one athlete, no matter good, a $100 million + deal is just asking for trouble in my book anyway. A Rod isn't worth half what Steinbrenner is paying him, neither was MJ in his early years with the Bulls for that matter as one guy no matter how special can get you a ring on his own.

Actually if we hadn't gotten Haynesworth, the Giants would have. Can you imagine the Giants' D-line if they had gotten Haynesworth? Having a dominant player on your roster, rather than on your opponent's roster, can be good personnel sense while necessitating a heavy price tag. If you ask me the people who say, "Same old Danny," with regards to Haynesworth often overlook this aspect.

If he is a total bust, then yes, we will overpay him. But even if he is a bust, one can still defend the gamble on his talent, if not the final outcome of the gamble.