Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by LadyT

You're funny! But, I agree with you. I just don't see Ramsey coming back from this. Despite their public statements to the contrary, I think there's now too much "bad blood" between Ramsey and Gibbs for either to ever feel comfortable with the other any more.

I don't think Gibbs has any faith in Ramsey (for whatever reason) and I sure don't think Ramsey trusts Gibbs any more.

And this is what has caused Gibbs so much consternation (wow, can't believe I used that word!) in the first place. It wasn't an easy decision, he said it himself.

Personally, I don't think Gibbs struggled with making Brunell the starter this week in favor of Ramsey - I really don't. What I do think he struggled with is how it would affect Ramsey's pshyce going forward and their relationship.

I think Gibbs struggled mainly with sepearating Coach Gibbs from Joe Gibbs.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

And this is what has caused Gibbs so much consternation (wow, can't believe I used that word!) in the first place. It wasn't an easy decision, he said it himself.

Personally, I don't think Gibbs struggled with making Brunell the starter this week in favor of Ramsey - I really don't. What I do think he struggled with is how it would affect Ramsey's pshyce going forward and their relationship.

I think Gibbs struggled mainly with sepearating Coach Gibbs from Joe Gibbs.

That's a really insightful comment. Coach Gibbs is a good person, Joe Gibbs is possibly even more so. It can't have been easy.

[FRPLG]

Well I think we can all agree that Gibbs honestly feels this is the way to go to win games. So the question isn't whether Brunell is better than Ramsey. The question is whether Gibbs knows what he is doing. I hate this move on a lot of levels but at the end of the day Gibbs has three more Superbowl Rings than anyone here and even more football knowledge. I still think the man knows football and I guess he can just feel it that Ramsey isn't going to get the job done. I still wonder if this is a kick in the oants type move to motivate Ramsey even more. His comments in the press conference were uncharacteristically cold and revealing. Maybe he wants Ramsey to feel abandoned as motivation.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Well I think we can all agree that Gibbs honestly feels this is the way to go to win games. So the question isn't whether Brunell is better than Ramsey. The question is whether Gibbs knows what he is doing. I hate this move on a lot of levels but at the end of the day Gibbs has three more Superbowl Rings than anyone here and even more football knowledge. I still think the man knows football and I guess he can just feel it that Ramsey isn't going to get the job done. I still wonder if this is a kick in the oants type move to motivate Ramsey even more. His comments in the press conference were uncharacteristically cold and revealing. Maybe he wants Ramsey to feel abandoned as motivation.

I doubt it. And I doubt that Gibbs doesn't know what he's doing either.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by LadyT

Question for all:


If Brunell gets hurt and can't play, what do you think Gibbs should do?

Put Ramsey back in as the starter or play the rookie?

Two scenarios: 1) the injury is early in the season and we're still in the running or 2) the injury is later and we're basically out of playoff contention.

Ramsey isn't out of the equation just yet.

I'm sure Gibbs told him we still need you and you may still play a vital role with this team, but right now Brunell is the man.

If Brunell were to get hurt early on then most definitely Ramsey will go back in.

If it's late in the year and the team is out of it, I think it depends on if Campbell is ready.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I doubt it. And I doubt that Gibbs doesn't know what he's doing either.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Are you agreeing or disagreeing?

disagreeing

[FRPLG]

So you don't think Gibbs knows what he is doing? I find that hard to believe.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Maybe Brunell would have fumbled on the Briggs hit, maybe he wouldn't have. But the point is I like his chances at getting away from future pass rushers better than Ramsey, and I like his internal clock better than Ramsey's.

You didn't even address the other fumble which Jansen and Rabach jumped on. That was all a function of Ramsey holding onto the ball way too long, and not securing it when the defenders finally got to him.

Last year's 16 games told me that we went through growing pains. The offensive line was miserable, we missed Jansen and our center sucked. Dockery was only average as well. Brunell got chased all over tarnation, and he had no receivers to throw to. Coles couldn't create separation because his toe was banged up, and Gardner was slow and inconsistent. Gibbs also did not know what he had in Cooley at this point. Brunell hurt himself, had to run all over the place, and never got a fair shake. Ramsey finally learned the ropes and played decently at the end of the season. But he still made his fair share of stupid decisions, like the toss to Cooley when he was double covered by a LB and Brian Dawkins in the end zone.

Now, we have an offensive line and Brunell has more zip on his passes. He played decently in preseason while Ramsey took 90% of the reps in practice. Now Brunell is getting the reps, and I like his veteran savvy better. I think he's a better fit this year. I don't want an erratic QB who I have to wonder if he'll fumble the next time a DE sacks him after 4 seconds of sitting in the pocket. I want a QB who manages the game and doesn't turn it over so that Portis and our D can win it for us.

we saw what both could do last season, and Ramsey did more with what he had. that much is PROVEN. Brunell may or may not be "healthier" than last season, but i know one thing, he's 36. he certainly won't be our starter next year, and we shouldn't be betting on a temporary solution.

[backrow]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I would agree with you if......Gibbs hadn't drafted Campbell.

Also, in what situation has Gibbs brought in two quaterbacks to compete for another's job, and subsequently names one the starter one year and benches the QB the following year. I can't ever remember Gibbbs doing something like this.

Help me out.

HOF Coach Gibbs went through this with Theisman & Schroeder, Theisman was 5-5 and was doing poorly, then the injury. Rypien & Williams, Rypien was fumble prone, so he inserted Williams. Ryp came back to lead us to the SB the next year. So none of this new.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by illdefined

we saw what both could do last season, and Ramsey did more with what he had. that much is PROVEN. Brunell may or may not be "healthier" than last season, but i know one thing, he's 36. he certainly won't be our starter next year, and we shouldn't be betting on a temporary solution.

Why not??? Trent Dilfer was a temporary solution.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Why not??? Trent Dilfer was a temporary solution.

so much for bringing stability back to the franchise...

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

So you don't think Gibbs knows what he is doing? I find that hard to believe.

NO, no....I do believe that Gibbs knows what he's doing.

Awww.....I'm confused as hell now

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by illdefined

so much for bringing stability back to the franchise...

I'll take stability in the form of Peyton Manning, Michael Vick, or Donovan McNabb. But I don't want stability in the form of Patick Ramsey. Do you really think he's the long-term solution?

Besides, this is a contrived statement. The stability we need so desperately is stability within the coaching ranks. Personell changes from year to year in the NFL, that is one of the only certainties. You need stability in the coaching staff first and foremost. Stability at QB would be great, but neither Ramsey nor Brunell are the answer in that department.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by backrow

HOF Coach Gibbs went through this with Theisman & Schroeder, Theisman was 5-5 and was doing poorly, then the injury. Rypien & Williams, Rypien was fumble prone, so he inserted Williams. Ryp came back to lead us to the SB the next year. So none of this new.

Okay, fine. But Gibbs has essentially brought in two QBs to compete with Ramsey. One via FA and the following year through the draft.
With one being the definite heir appearant.

So even those situations are quite different than the one we have here.