Jay Gruden you are our only hope

[Gary84Clark]

Let Gruden pick a QB in the draft and trade RG3. Prediction: Gruden 2 seasons and done.

[skinsguy]

Gruden needs another couple of seasons. There's a difference between a 3-8 coach who has shown a lack of competency, and a 3-8 coach who's trying to work with what has been given to him. Let's face it, RG3 lost the ball game yesterday. He was clearly the weakest link. I surprised McCoy didn't enter the game.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Gruden needs another couple of seasons. There's a difference between a 3-8 coach who has shown a lack of competency, and a 3-8 coach who's trying to work with what has been given to him. Let's face it, RG3 lost the ball game yesterday. He was clearly the weakest link. I surprised McCoy didn't enter the game.

Gruden lost that game by not inserting McCoy and not giving Moses any help or bringing in Palumbus and moving Compton to LT. He was content to let RGIII fail and lose the game in the process. Then he blamed the offensive players afterwards. That makes Gruden a loser in my book. That was a winnable game. I couldn't care less if Gruden were to resign tomorrow, if that is his attitude.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Gruden lost that game by not inserting McCoy and not giving Moses any help or bringing in Palumbus and moving Compton to LT. He was content to let RGIII fail and lose the game in the process. Then he blamed the offensive players afterwards. That makes Gruden a loser in my book. That was a winnable game. I couldn't care less if Gruden were to resign tomorrow, if that is his attitude.

LOL! Trent Williams, our only pro bowl linemen, had his hands full with Aldon Smith that last time the 'skins played the 49ers. What makes you think Compton would have faired any better at left tackle than Moses? Anyone who had the task of going up against Smith would have failed. There's no competent adjustments Gruden could have made on the offensive line. None. And don't even speak of Polumbus. LOL!!!

RGIII failed on his own. I understand he doesn't have all day to sit back and wait for a receiver to come wide open, but RGIII made a bad offensive line look even worse. Gruden gave Griffin plays to help build his confidence, and RGIII couldn't answer the bell. He even started mixing in some read option, and Griffin couldn't failed. I've been as big of an RGIII supporter as anybody on this forum, but even a blind man can see that RGIII just doesn't get it.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Gruden lost that game by not inserting McCoy and not giving Moses any help or bringing in Palumbus and moving Compton to LT. He was content to let RGIII fail and lose the game in the process. Then he blamed the offensive players afterwards. That makes Gruden a loser in my book. That was a winnable game. I couldn't care less if Gruden were to resign tomorrow, if that is his attitude.

You keep saying the same thing. Why would you replace a player with a worse one? You can just switch Tackles like they are corners

[rocnrik]

The Problem is not GRUDEN..It was never Shanny..it all is on SNYDER and The great Vinny! Looking back the RGIII pick should have never gone down..way too much to give up and the team had huge holes in other areas..what we are seeing now is the fruits of BAD decisions made years ago. How will they fix this mess you ask..well they need to fes' up and admit the blunder and move on..(RGIII is not the only top college Qb to fail in the NFL)..Lets say RGIII stays and Gruden goes..okay ..WHAT COACH WOULD EVER TAKE THIS JOB??..not a smart one for sure! RGIII IS DONE in washington. he may very well go someplace else and play okay but he is done here. The big question is what now?? whatever they do you cannot give the future away for one player! The rules in the NFL are so in favor of the offense that a journeyman type QB can have success.. Nobody has ever said RGIII is not a GREAT ATHELETE ..WAY BETTER than Colt ..but you know what if Colt had started every game this year we would most likely be in the mix instead of 3 wins i believe we would have 6 maybe 7 wins right now.. Remember we wasted games on Cousins. The coaches have total given up on RGIII ..he most likely will not start next game or if he does he will be pulled quick ..I say McCoy behind a better OLINE is way better than this RGIII mess..AT LEAST Colt has the understanding and can read the defense , that alone is a huge upgrade.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

LOL! Trent Williams, our only pro bowl linemen, had his hands full with Aldon Smith that last time the 'skins played the 49ers. What makes you think Compton would have faired any better at left tackle than Moses? Anyone who had the task of going up against Smith would have failed. There's no competent adjustments Gruden could have made on the offensive line. None. And don't even speak of Polumbus. LOL!!!

RGIII failed on his own. I understand he doesn't have all day to sit back and wait for a receiver to come wide open, but RGIII made a bad offensive line look even worse. Gruden gave Griffin plays to help build his confidence, and RGIII couldn't answer the bell. He even started mixing in some read option, and Griffin couldn't failed. I've been as big of an RGIII supporter as anybody on this forum, but even a blind man can see that RGIII just doesn't get it.

I see you conveniently overlooked the idea of bringing in Colt. And Gruden could certainly have used a TE or RB to help out Moses. Yet he did neither. I'm not supporting the way RGIII has been playing but this particular game was winnable and Gruden did not do enough to win it. A coach should always try to win, right? Right?

[KI Skins Fan]

Bucket, see my post directly above ^. He didn't need to switch tackles but he should have done something to win this game. You're letting Gruden off the hook too easily for this particular failure.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by rocnrik

The Problem is not GRUDEN..It was never Shanny..it all is on SNYDER and The great Vinny! Looking back the RGIII pick should have never gone down..way too much to give up and the team had huge holes in other areas..what we are seeing now is the fruits of BAD decisions made years ago. How will they fix this mess you ask..well they need to fes' up and admit the blunder and move on..(RGIII is not the only top college Qb to fail in the NFL)..Lets say RGIII stays and Gruden goes..okay ..WHAT COACH WOULD EVER TAKE THIS JOB??..not a smart one for sure! RGIII IS DONE in washington. he may very well go someplace else and play okay but he is done here. The big question is what now?? whatever they do you cannot give the future away for one player! The rules in the NFL are so in favor of the offense that a journeyman type QB can have success.. Nobody has ever said RGIII is not a GREAT ATHELETE ..WAY BETTER than Colt ..but you know what if Colt had started every game this year we would most likely be in the mix instead of 3 wins i believe we would have 6 maybe 7 wins right now.. Remember we wasted games on Cousins. The coaches have total given up on RGIII ..he most likely will not start next game or if he does he will be pulled quick ..I say McCoy behind a better OLINE is way better than this RGIII mess..AT LEAST Colt has the understanding and can read the defense , that alone is a huge upgrade.

I think Snyder is the main cause, but others bear some responsibility too.

The Haynesworth deal, tying up so much money, I agree that's on Snyder and Cerrato (and Mara for the bogus cap penalty when the Skins got out from under it).

The RG3 pick, I think that's on Mike Shanahan, as is our lack of talent. I don't think Shanny did that bad a job, but our OL and other position problems are currently Mike's responsibility (maybe in a couple years say its Allen or Gruden's lineup?).

And the RG3 pick could have still worked if Griffin Jr and Sr had listened to the famed head coach that picked him, and kept running the system Mike and Kyle whipped up for him. Guess we know now it wasn't the read option that was getting RG3 banged up and hurt. He's still a pinata back there, and can mess up his ankle just jumping up and down.

Yeah, I agree, should have put McCoy in. Shame, because if only Griffin would play like it was 2012, he could lead us to wins, while building on his pocket skills.

[Chico23231]

Look at what Bruce brought in with his first round of free agents:

Luavao - We could get the same performance from a back up like McRib. Has not helped one bit.

Porter - Like Luavao, I told people Porter would be a horrible signing

Roberts - I like it, but we havent gotten any consistency from the offense nor the special teams for him to shine. So his impact has been minimal

Ryan fuckin Clark - bigger disaster than originally thought. missed tackle to end the game was appropriate

DJax - hands down the allstar of the group...great signing.

Hatcher - I still like this signing, Im bringing him back next year.


My biggest problem with Bruce is the job he failed to due in regards to ignoring the TE position where we have suffered mightly and keeping Chester and Polumbus on the roster. These decisions have killed us.


Jay doesnt have alot to work with folks with wide gapping holes are ignored in the offseason or guys with bring in arent producing.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I see you conveniently overlooked the idea of bringing in Colt. And Gruden could certainly have used a TE or RB to help out Moses. Yet he did neither. I'm not supporting the way RGIII has been playing but this particular game was winnable and Gruden did not do enough to win it. A coach should always try to win, right? Right?

Id wait for the film breakdown to see how often moses was left 1 on 1 in situations when he shouldnt have.

Was it supposed to be quick pass plays when he was left 1 on 1?

Did a TE or RB occasionally blow his assignment of chipping or staying and helping? our TE blocking has been pretty bad this year.

Did we have to give Moses help on every single passing play?

A lot of unknowns.

[Evilgrin]

Pretty sure Helu will be found guilty of forgetting his responsibilities on that last play.

Also, SF's offense is really bad, that is Griffin with a much better offensive line. Kaepernick does alot of the same stuff Griffin does, but he has alot more confidence. So our defense better not forget what Tampa just did to them.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

I think Snyder is the main cause, but others bear some responsibility too.

The Haynesworth deal, tying up so much money, I agree that's on Snyder and Cerrato (and Mara for the bogus cap penalty when the Skins got out from under it).

The RG3 pick, I think that's on Mike Shanahan, as is our lack of talent. I don't think Shanny did that bad a job, but our OL and other position problems are currently Mike's responsibility (maybe in a couple years say its Allen or Gruden's lineup?).

And the RG3 pick could have still worked if Griffin Jr and Sr had listened to the famed head coach that picked him, and kept running the system Mike and Kyle whipped up for him. Guess we know now it wasn't the read option that was getting RG3 banged up and hurt. He's still a pinata back there, and can mess up his ankle just jumping up and down.

Yeah, I agree, should have put McCoy in. Shame, because if only Griffin would play like it was 2012, he could lead us to wins, while building on his pocket skills.

All the leaks point to shanny wanting cutler, manning and then tannenhill. But i dont care who made the decision. the answer will not help the skins going forward imo. we made an organizational decision to go all-in on a chance at a franchise QB .. and it didnt work out. i still like the decision to do what you can to land a potential HOF at the QB position. when posed with a similar decision in the future, I hope the answer is yes. albeit, a better scouted decision.

I dont think the 2012 formula was sustainable. what the shannys' did in 2012 was magical. it was special. the combination of RO, shanny's zone blocking scheme, Alfmo being a perfect zone runner .. lead to many of RG3's first and only read being wide open. in 2012 you heard rumblings that Kyle wanted RG3 to be better at reading the field but had to limit his passing plays to just be focused on one half of the field to simplify it for RG3.

[JoeRedskin]

To a certain degree, when it came to the roster, we have been handicapped by the penalty the last couple of years. Going forward, I think BA needs to be held to a higher standard.

With that said, the Luavo signing is the only one I think was a complete wash because better guards for the same price were available. For an amount comparable to what we spent, we could have had Asamoah or Beadles. Both would have been solid additions, particularly Beadles as we was from Denver's zone blocking scheme. At the same time, there wasn't a whole lot of talent out there.

As for Porter & Clark, they were in positions of high demand - particularly Clark. As much as I originally wanted him, glad J.Byrd got his bazillions from someone else. It was frustrating to watch Delmas, Whitner, Ward & Jenkins all go for what seemed affordable contracts. At the same time, between injury concerns, age and prior play, none of these seemed a particular upgrade except possibly Ward. Still wish we had taken a flyer on Delmas, but the others have not demonstrated that the FO's opinion was all that wrong. Bottom line, Clark was the leftover on a pile of warmed over mediocrity.

As for Porter, he was intended to be a cheap slot corner - at most. Never saw him as anything other than competition for the 3rd CB position with no guarantee to even make the roster - that he did speaks volumes for the lack of young depth. Our starters were supposed to be Hall and Amerson. Well, that didn't go as planned. At the same time, Breeland is getting some great experience and next year, our top three should be Amerson, Breeland with (hopefully) Hall coming in as the 3rd CB and/or generic DB depth. I am good with that. Breeland & Amerson as the top 2 going forward makes me really, really happy. Throw in Hall as depth/slot corner and we have a real strength going forward.

To me, it is hard to judge Roberts, I still like him. I think he plays solid and runs good routes - but drops some balls he shouldn't.

Jackson & Hatcher - great & good signings. D.Jax fell into our laps and I am glad BA pounced on it. Hatcher has been very good at times and is part of D that has a lot of solid players but no real playmakers.

We overbid on no one and most of us were pretty happy with that. I am hopeful that in the future we continue to look ot the draft (mainly) for parts, lock up our good young players, and resist the urge to win the offseason. It may not be much, but that is - IMHO - one of the few non-dysfunctional things the team has done lately (UFA frugality) and, hopefully, something that they continue to build.

Better scouting seems to be needed but we have had a lot of mid-round hits of late and (other than potentially RGIII) not a lot of busts (Robinson, Breeland, Alf Mo, Helu).

With all that said, - I just don't know how this team makes it out of the quagmire of "bad team land."

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

Id wait for the film breakdown to see how often moses was left 1 on 1 in situations when he shouldnt have.

Was it supposed to be quick pass plays when he was left 1 on 1?

Did a TE or RB occasionally blow his assignment of chipping or staying and helping? our TE blocking has been pretty bad this year.

Did we have to give Moses help on every single passing play?

A lot of unknowns.

Moses and Long at oline were both seen a project picks where it might take several years. I dont see Moses as a surprise...actually thought overall he was better than expected yesterday.