ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I agree 100% with you, but it's still not somebody you select in the first (or even second) round.


Remember how draft pundits had Bruce Campbell (tackle from Maryland) ranked so high because of his "natural talent" and his "upside" to be a dominant left tackle. He went exactly where Newton should be going. About the fourth round.

Or JaMarcus Russell. At this time a few years ago everyone was sniffing his jock and talking about his otherworldly "talent." Now he's a spokesman for purple drank.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Or JaMarcus Russell. At this time a few years ago everyone was sniffing his jock and talking about his otherworldly "talent." Now he's a spokesman for purple drank.

Yeah thats because people put way to much stock in the combine and the very scripted individual workouts. I remember scout sayin his individual workout was maybe the most impressive ever. Combine and workouts are nothing but hype.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

4th round? That's a bit of a stretch. QB's are always over-hyped, just the nature of the position.

I wouldn't touch him in the top 10. In fact I probably wouldn't touch any of the available QBs in the top 10.

From Shanan's book "Think Like A Champion"

" One of the most second-guessed areas, where so many risks are taken, is the NFL draft. Each April, some of the picks baffle me, but none more so than at quarterback. Of all the players and positions available in the draft, quarterback is easily the worst evaluated.

It’s amazing to me how some teams will take a quarterback in the first round when you have him ranked as a fifth-round talent. I’ve seen players we’ve had ranked as fourth-round picks go in the top ten. It is why I love to play the odds with quarterbacks.

During the 1993 draft, while I was still with the 49ers, we had Michigan’s Elvis Grbac rated as the draft’s second-best quarterback, behind Washington State’s Drew Bledsoe and just ahead of Notre Dame’s Rick Mirer and Washington’s Mark Brunell. San Francisco was loaded at quarterback and I made my pitch for Elvis in the fourth round, the fifth round, the sixth round and the seventh - which gives you an idea of how much pull I had there. The 49ers did not take Elvis until the eighth round.

Elvis went on to help the 49ers get to Super Bowl XXIX and later, as a free agent, left San Francisco to become the starting quarterback in Kansas City. But that draft left me with something more than a strong relationship with Elvis. It left me with the idea that if you see a quarterback in the third, fourth, or fifth round whom you feel is a second-round talent, why wait to take him? The odds are with you."

[MTK]

Good info but that doesn't tell us if Newton is a 4th round talent or not.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Good info but that doesn't tell us if Newton is a 4th round talent or not.

Sally Jenkins - Judging quarterbacks is anything but a snap

[MTK]

Again, good info but that doesn't tell us if Newton is a 4th round talent or not.

All that matters is where the team that ends up taking him has him ranked. Perhaps some teams do have him rated as a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th rounder. But there are definitely teams that have him rated as a 1st rounder.

[30gut]

I think if people are honest with themselves its kinda obvious that Cam Newton is a first round talent.
But, at the same time being talented does not guarantee success for Newton or for anybody else.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Again, good info but that doesn't tell us if Newton is a 4th round talent or not.

All that matters is where the team that ends up taking him has him ranked. Perhaps some teams do have him rated as a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th rounder. But there are definitely teams that have him rated as a 1st rounder.

Agreed......maybe that's the reason the author put emphasis on it not being exact, leaving an open door to all the many variables.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I think if people are honest with themselves its kinda obvious that Cam Newton is a first round talent.

Not even remotely true. I put Cam Newton on the same lines as Tim Tebow. Tebow was a slated 3-4 round talent at the QB level. It's the exact reason why he really came back to college instead of opting for the pros.

Tebow to gauge NFL draft prospects - NCAA Football - Sporting News


Guess what? Nothing much changed that following year at Florida either and his stock was still at a 3-4 round QB talent with much "upside" and "talent" as Cam Newron would be. That doesn't mean some idiot Coach/GM isn't going to take him. That idiot in Denver (McDaniels) selected him in the first and he didn't even make it through the season before he was fired. Denver is still looking for a QB as they've already named Orton the starter.

Denver Broncos Coach Fox Names Orton Starter... for Now | Bleacher Report

If you want a true professional's opinion, then try Mayock's.

Newton's media workout was more sizzle than steak - Shutdown Corner - NFL*Blog - Yahoo! Sports

"I really didn't need to see the workout, nor do I need to hear about the workout because I can tell you what that workout entails. I've watched five of his game tapes, he's got a classic over-hand delivery, he's got a big arm. You and I in gym shorts at the local high school can throw pretty accurately, so I would guarantee you he would look great in a pair of gym shorts, he would throw with accuracy and arm strength. His mechanics are very good but I would also [offer] one cautionary note, and that is the best pro day for a quarterback I ever attended was JaMarcus Russell(notes). That same day, even though I admitted it was the best pro day I ever saw, I also said I wouldn't take him in the first round. For me, it's not about him throwing in shorts; it's about a lot of other things.

"A choreographed day like today is fine, but the NFL is not really even allowed to be there so they're looking at the clips, the same that you and I are. They want to see him throw the ball at the Combine with the other quarterbacks, and then they want to see him at the Auburn pro day. And even then, that's really not going to tell the tale because he's going to throw the football beautifully in those controlled environments. To me, there are two issues with this kid. Issue No. 1 is he came out of a shotgun [formation], and if you watch the tape it's basically a very simple offense. One read and either the ball was out or he was out. Can he adapt to, can he process and assimilate a very structured and complex pro offense against a complex pro defense? And secondly, and most importantly, when you get to a certain skill level in the NFL, which this kid certainly has, at the quarterback position what kind of kid is he? Is he going to be the first guy in the building? Is he a gym rat? Is he football smart? Is he a leader of men? All of those things to me are way more important than any workout in shorts."

I suggest you fans sit back and remove the hype from a player. Based off of talent at the QB spot alone, he's not a 1st round grade. If you want to base it off "upside" and "potential", then ANYBODY can be a first round grade. First round grades are for guys that are supposed to be impact players from the get go, not for guys that have huge upsides that require a lot of coaching/teaching to perform. If you are having to teach a player mechanics and throwing motion and footwork, chances are he shouldn't be a first round grade. We won't even throw in the "character" issues at risk here as well, which he's failed miserably.

[MTK]

And with all that, he's still going in the top of the first round. Could go #1 overall.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

And with all that, he's still going in the top of the first round. Could go #1 overall.

Even more so now that their will be a rookie salary cap. It means a team isn't going to have to pay the huge costs if he's a bust. However, drafting the wrong QB will set your franchise back 3-5 years regardless of how much money you give him. Had Vinny been here, we would have drafted Jimmy Clausen at the #4 spot this past year. Like Shanny said in the book, it's amazing how stupid people are when it comes to making picks.

I don't see the Panthers taking him. JR doesn't like to take players that have had troubled pasts so I definitely think they'll go defense. My guess is they want people to think that so they can trade out of the pick and get more bang for the buck.

[skinsfaninok]

Scout on Newton: “You’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t” | ProFootballTalk

[MTK]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Even more so now that their will be a rookie salary cap. It means a team isn't going to have to pay the huge costs if he's a bust. However, drafting the wrong QB will set your franchise back 3-5 years regardless of how much money you give him. Had Vinny been here, we would have drafted Jimmy Clausen at the #4 spot this past year. Like Shanny said in the book, it's amazing how stupid people are when it comes to making picks.

I don't see the Panthers taking him. JR doesn't like to take players that have had troubled pasts so I definitely think they'll go defense. My guess is they want people to think that so they can trade out of the pick and get more bang for the buck.

I'm not sure which way the Panthers will go. Love him or hate him Newton is the kind of guy that creates a buzz, and a place like Carolina could use a guy like him to put buts in seats and get the fan base energized again.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I put Cam Newton on the same lines as Tim Tebow.

Then you would be wrong.
Right off the bat Cam Newton throws the ball much better then Tebow probably ever will.
Stronger arm, better release, more consisent mechanics etc.

I think I'll let Mayock himself clear up the next portion of your post:

2011 NFL Scouting Combine: Mike Mayock conference call (February 17); Part 1 | Blog And Tackle

Based off of talent at the QB spot alone, he's not a 1st round grade.

Talent is exactly why Cam has 1st round ability.
Cam Newton looking purely at a talent perspective like you suggest is easily a top pick.
If you can honestly look at Newton and not see or understand his raw talent you might not understand what you're looking at.

After all the bluster of your post my point remains:

Originally Posted by 30gut

I think if people are honest with themselves its kinda obvious that Cam Newton is a first round talent.
But, at the same time being talented does not guarantee success for Newton or for anybody else.

[skinsfaninok]

Mcshay and Kiper have us taking Cam