Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I'm not putting money on the Senate, but it is well within the realm of likelihood.

Larry J. Sabato's Crystal Ball » DEMOCRATS BLUE AS SENATE ACQUIRES A REDDISH TINGE

I don't see Rs losing the House

Larry J. Sabato's Crystal Ball » Channeling Truman? The Race for the House

Voter turnout will not be what it was in 2008. 2008 was a historic election, with a poor economy for the last 4 years (come 2012) many who voted for Hope & Change have seen changes they didn't count on and their hopes dashed under the flailing economy. Rs and those wanting change in the WH will have momentum in Nov. 2012 (barring a major economic recovery).

Senate will be close for sure..but I'm expecting a swing in House. You guys completely overreached and will pay dearly.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Senate will be close for sure..but I'm expecting a swing in House. You guys completely overreached and will pay dearly.

I'm expecting another $ 100......if you're so confident

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I'm expecting another $ 100......if you're so confident

Oh, it's going to be a slog and I'm 90% confident, given the current GOP field, Obama's going to win. I'll leave the Vegas stuff up to you and Saden

[12thMan]

I wanted to recap last night's GOP debate. Overall I was impressed with the flow of the discussion, the exchanges between candidates. I felt it was one of the better moderated debates I've seen in a while.

Governor Rick Perry's debuted on a national stage last night. My policies differences aside, I think Governor Perry more than held his own and came prepared to answer and respond to attacks on his record and controversial comments he's made in the past. A big part of doing well in these debates is being ready and looking the part. This one debate won't propel Governor Perry in the polls or convince voters that he's presidential material, but he did show he's ready for prime time. Quite frankly, it's a very long vetting process and voters get engaged in different phases. Perry's performance probably changed the calculus of the third tier candidates and how much longer they decide to stick around. If I'm Rick Santorum, Herman Cain, Newt Gingrich, or Ron Paul I'm thinking what's next.

Two things Gov. Perry said jumped out to me last night though. He actually gave President Obama props for keeping the country safe and crediting him (along with the Navy Seals) for killing Bin Laden. That's one little compliment the White House will stick in it's back pocket until the appropriate time. His rhetoric on Social Security continues to be baffling. He doubled down on referring to Social Security as a Ponzi scheme. To look at this practically for a moment: Do I really want the Chief Executive referring to one of the nation's most sacrosanct programs in modern American history, one that he will presumably oversee, as a Ponzi scheme? I don't care how brilliant Perry thinks he is, that just isn't a winning issue.

Mitt Romney was on his game. Again, policy aside he seems more comfortable and is chomping at the bit to get a piece of President Obama, one on one.

I think it's a two man race -- Romney and Perry.

Jon Huntsman is who I thought he was. Just another guy. He's just there, no discernible strategy other than I don't hate Obama and let's all be civil. Sorry, that's not going to cut it in a Republican primary.

Michelle Bachmann didn't do anything to hurt herself, but she didn't stand out like she did in the first two debates. She'll probably have enough base support to stick around to the bitter end, but her momentum seems to be fading. Still, I wouldn't underestimate her.

Congressman Ron Paul went out of his to explain how FEMA is a waste of money and time and serves no good purpose. Hurricanes, tornados, and earthquakes be damned, Ron Paul wants us to go back to the '70s before FEMA was formed. I wonder if he were president during Katrina what his response would have been. His views on the TSA are about the same. Maybe it's just me, but I'm still a tad nervous and don't mind a random pat down at the airport to ensure a bomb doesn't find it's way onto a flight. I guarantee you that terrorists don't plot to kill Americans based on party affiliation or whether we're Libertarian, Democrat, or Republican. They hate all of us. One plane going down because of dumb policies is one too many.

Rick Santorum is more Catholic than the Pope. Can't he just be a pastor or something. Just do it, man. You'd be great at it.

Newt Gingrich sounds more and more like the substitute teacher who knows that he's smarter than the guy he's standing in for and is now becoming upset with the school board because he realizes they will never hire him full-time because the kids just don't take him seriously.

Hermain Cain is a talking point machine. I think he should run for Senate someday though, because he'll never be president.

[saden1]

When did Ronald Reagen become a deity?

Rick Perry looked like GW out there with is smirking and facial expressions. I will declare him not electable for many reasons but his SS jabs is the most damaging. Is he expecting young people to vote for him?

Ron Paul was his ridiculous self. I do like the ads he was running though. Mr. Ron "Stick a Pork In the Bill and Vote Against the Bill" Paul might as well stick a fork in it already. I hope he doesn't plan to use an executive order to ban FEMA and all those other worthless government departments.

Mitt Romney said a lot, a lot of it lies that Obama will call him on. Unlike Obama he has worked in the real world as a business. It will help his cause that he was a more successful business man than Bush I am sure and unlike the Job Destroy in Chief he managed an equity firm that laid-off people before it hired them...or was it the other way around?

Jon Huntsman wasn't crazy enough last night and that's really admirable. Loved his stance on pledges, unfortunately the Republican mob likes its pledges as much as its flag pins. I am hoping he doesn't win cause he's reasonable enough to win independents and maybe even my vote.

Michelle Bachmann was her usual rambling self plus puffy hair. A few times she said things that were disconnected from reality and other times she said things that flat-out didn't make any sense. She needs a lot more training/education before she can even get to the general election. I'm crossing my fingers she's the one!

Hermain Cain, you make so many obvious points. How about you throw us a bone and give us some not so obvious ones? Give us something besides working in the real world as an asset. It's not like it's an advantage given that Obama has done it too and is currently the sitting president. You got to come harder and stronger than that.

Newt Gingrich, why won't you just fck-off? No one wants a snake in the big house! And that's not me saying that.

Rick Santorum, why is he running again? After Newt no one is less electable than this douchbag.

I never seen a more sad bunch of Candidates in my life. I mean, only two candidates, Perry and Huntsman, can win their home state for sure.


SS33, I am willing to give you a chance to buy back your bet at $50 right now. Let me know if you're interested in salvaging half of the money you've thrown away.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I wanted to recap last night's GOP debate. Overall I was impressed with the flow of the discussion, the exchanges between candidates. I felt it was one of the better moderated debates I've seen in a while.

Governor Rick Perry's debuted on a national stage last night. My policies differences aside, I think Governor Perry more than held his own and came prepared to answer and respond to attacks on his record and controversial comments he's made in the past. A big part of doing well in these debates is being ready and looking the part. This one debate won't propel Governor Perry in the polls or convince voters that he's presidential material, but he did show he's ready for prime time. Quite frankly, it's a very long vetting process and voters get engaged in different phases. Perry's performance probably changed the calculus of the third tier candidates and how much longer they decide to stick around. If I'm Rick Santorum, Herman Cain, Newt Gingrich, or Ron Paul I'm thinking what's next.

Two things Gov. Perry said jumped out to me last night though. He actually gave President Obama props for keeping the country safe and crediting him (along with the Navy Seals) for killing Bin Laden. That's one little compliment the White House will stick in it's back pocket until the appropriate time. His rhetoric on Social Security continues to be baffling. He doubled down on referring to Social Security as a Ponzi scheme. To look at this practically for a moment: Do I really want the Chief Executive referring to one of the nation's most sacrosanct programs in modern American history, one that he will presumably oversee, as a Ponzi scheme? I don't care how brilliant Perry thinks he is, that just isn't a winning issue.

Mitt Romney was on his game. Again, policy aside he seems more comfortable and is chomping at the bit to get a piece of President Obama, one on one.

I think it's a two man race -- Romney and Perry.

Jon Huntsman is who I thought he was. Just another guy. He's just there, no discernible strategy other than I don't hate Obama and let's all be civil. Sorry, that's not going to cut it in a Republican primary.

Michelle Bachmann didn't do anything to hurt herself, but she didn't stand out like she did in the first two debates. She'll probably have enough base support to stick around to the bitter end, but her momentum seems to be fading. Still, I wouldn't underestimate her.

Congressman Ron Paul went out of his to explain how FEMA is a waste of money and time and serves no good purpose. Hurricanes, tornados, and earthquakes be damned, Ron Paul wants us to go back to the '70s before FEMA was formed. I wonder if he were president during Katrina what his response would have been. His views on the TSA are about the same. Maybe it's just me, but I'm still a tad nervous and don't mind a random pat down at the airport to ensure a bomb doesn't find it's way onto a flight. I guarantee you that terrorists don't plot to kill Americans based on party affiliation or whether we're Libertarian, Democrat, or Republican. They hate all of us. One plane going down because of dumb policies is one too many.

Rick Santorum is more Catholic than the Pope. Can't he just be a pastor or something. Just do it, man. You'd be great at it.

Newt Gingrich sounds more and more like the substitute teacher who knows that he's smarter than the guy he's standing in for and is now becoming upset with the school board because he realizes they will never hire him full-time because the kids just don't take him seriously.

Hermain Cain is a talking point machine. I think he should run for Senate someday though, because he'll never be president.

The only reason that saying SS is a ponzi scheme could hurt him is that Americans are not smart enough to figure it out on their own.

On that note its still the 1st qtr and GB has 21 point and look like a well oiled machine.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

When did Ronald Reagen become a deity?

Not sure about deity....but a saint, June 5, 2004.

Missed the debate.....wake me up after SB XLVI

SS33, I am willing to give you a chance to buy back your bet at $50 right now. Let me know if you're interested in salvaging half of the money you've thrown away.

I'm in on the bet for the long haul. If Perry gets the nomination is the bet on or is it just for Romney only?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Not sure about deity....but a saint, June 5, 2004.

Missed the debate.....wake me up after SB XLVI

I'm in on the bet for the long haul. If Perry gets the nomination is the bet on or is it just for Romney only?

It was for Romney only but if you want to hedge your bet on Perry too I'm down.

[12thMan]

If unemployment hits 10%, Perry still couldn't beat Obama.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

If unemployment hits 10%, Perry still couldn't beat Obama.

I would not be to sure about that. Obama is loosing independants at a high rate and his base is not very pumped to support him.

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I would not be to sure about that. Obama is loosing independants at a high rate and his base is not very pumped to support him.

I'm sure there are plenty of Republicans who look at Rick Perry and say to themselves.

Never go full retard.

That man couldn't be further from the center if he tried.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

If unemployment hits 10%, Perry still couldn't beat Obama.

Ummm, if you think so, OK I guess.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2012 - General Election: Perry vs. Obama

Obama drops, Perry surges in new poll | The Ticket - Yahoo! News
(See the last line in this link)

IBOPE | Zogby Latest Polls
(See the approval rating in the banner at the top)

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

It was for Romney only but if you want to hedge your bet on Perry too I'm down.

Let's do that. Bet covers either Romney or Perry as the GOP nominee.

EDIT: In the interest of fairness, if you want to hedge on Hillary getting the nomination I'll still keep the bet. LOL.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

I'm sure there are plenty of Republicans who look at Rick Perry and say to themselves.

Never go full retard.

That man couldn't be further from the center if he tried.

Full retard mode is the people who have not figured out SS is a ponzi scheme.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Two things Gov. Perry said jumped out to me last night though. He actually gave President Obama props for keeping the country safe and crediting him (along with the Navy Seals) for killing Bin Laden. That's one little compliment the White House will stick in it's back pocket until the appropriate time. His rhetoric on Social Security continues to be baffling. He doubled down on referring to Social Security as a Ponzi scheme. To look at this practically for a moment: Do I really want the Chief Executive referring to one of the nation's most sacrosanct programs in modern American history, one that he will presumably oversee, as a Ponzi scheme? I don't care how brilliant Perry thinks he is, that just isn't a winning issue.

First my Disclaimer: Didn't watch the debate. Don't know much about the candidates yet except what I have gleaned here. From what I know, I would like to take bits and pieces from each candidate but don't fully endorse any of their complete agendas.

With that said, if Perry insinuated that SS reform needs to be done - good for him. SS functions on the same structures that drive ponzi schemes and, if such an investment structure was attempted by a private party, it would be an illegal. The difference, of course, is that a true ponzi scheme is created with the intent to defraud which most certainly is not the intent of SS. At the same time, while not created to defraud, it will, in the not-to-distant future, be unable to provide the benefits it currently guarrantees. While not fraud in the strictest sense, it is certainly not beyond the pale to point out the inherent untruthfulness of the current system.

To argue that pointing out inherent flaws of "one of the nation's most sacrosanct programs" should be verbotten smacks of 1984's Newspeak and discourages accurate discussion about the problems created and faced by the Social Security system. In its current, the SS fund will be exhaused in 2036 and, after that on a pay as you go basis, it will only be able to pay 75% of the benefits it is currently promising to its "investors".

People entering the workforce should be made aware that, because of its basic Ponzi structure, SS cannot continue indefinitely without a drastic reduction in services or a hugely increasing the burden on current and future workers. Regardless, it is unlikely that current and future employees will get any where near the ROI they have been promised or expect from SS in its current form.

You're right, demagogues will undoubtedly use scare tactics to make it seem that any reform of SS is tantamount to an attack on the most vulnerable of society that will leave our elderly to die in destitution.

Do I worry that Perry sees "one of the nation's most sacrosanct programs in modern American history" for what it is - a legalized ponzi scheme? No.
I would rather my President have an accurate and honest understanding of the nature of our system for caring for the elderly rather than be afraid to advocate for its reform because it is "sacrosanct". The Social Security system fulfills to an important and necessary role in our society and to discuss it in anything but the most brutally honest measures does everyone - young and old - a disservice.

Okay, rant over.